Most (if not all) of the small survey firms around here, bill their boundary and topographic jobs at lump some. My guess is; they make a lot of money on the ones that go smooth and eat the ones that go sour...
I've been in business since 2006 and that's pretty much what I've done, so far. So my question is: Is that what everyone else does; or has anyone ever went back to the client and said; hey, this one is taking a lot more time than I anticipated, and I'm going to have to ask for more money?
TIA
I hope everyone has a great day, I know I will!
Dougie
I generally leave some wiggle room by quoting an "estimate" of the total fees.?ÿ Sometimes things go quick and the bill isn't as much as I first imagined and sometimes you have to hit the client for a "little more than anticipated".?ÿ ?ÿ If the client wants a hard and fast number to stick with, make sure your "wiggle room" is adequate.
Dougie,
It really depends on the client.?ÿ I try to be very specific with my proposal scopes.?ÿ That way I can justify more money if the scope creep gets out of hand.?ÿ Even with that, I rarely ask for more money on a T&M.?ÿ The real problem I have is my clients demanding T&M not to exceed.?ÿ That is a suckers bet, all the risk with no possible reward.?ÿ To top that off, they all seem to thing that pay when paid is a fair deal.?ÿ Note that most of my work is for design firms.
P.s.?ÿ I'm going to have a wet day.?ÿ Apparently the rainy season decided to get rain in NW Oregon and we are looking at 4" to 6" by Saturday.?ÿ
I had to go back once about 20 years ago, when my $25k boundary proposal ballooned to $40k after I got into the nuts and bolts of the survey.?ÿ I offered to bill the overage at half-rate, which the owner agreed to.?ÿ It was an expensive lesson.
A good way to soften the potential blow of an increase is to bring it up ahead of time. I've told clients that barring any major problems, this price will hold. If, however, I need to prepare a subdivision plan to clear up the encroachments the cost will be this much.
Sometimes, they just catch you off guard.
Dougie,
It really depends on the client.?ÿ I try to be very specific with my proposal scopes.?ÿ That way I can justify more money if the scope creep gets out of hand.?ÿ Even with that, I rarely ask for more money on a T&M.?ÿ The real problem I have is my clients demanding T&M not to exceed.?ÿ That is a suckers bet, all the risk with no possible reward.?ÿ To top that off, they all seem to thing that pay when paid is a fair deal.?ÿ Note that most of my work is for design firms.
P.s.?ÿ I'm going to have a wet day.?ÿ Apparently the rainy season decided to get rain in NW Oregon and we are looking at 4" to 6" by Saturday.?ÿ
How is it a sucker's bet??ÿ Don't you simply quit working on the project when the limit is reached?
For lot surveys, they are T&M, or at least that is our attempted policy. Too many variables on a small budget.?ÿ
In practice, however, we need to provide an estimated budget. On a small project any issue can double the field time, so that needs to be communicated to the client ASAP...as in, "Do you want to proceed?"
It is easier said than done.
Strange you should ask because I just did one of those lump sum topos where I thought would be locating the fence, rear building line, property line, and a couple of elevations here and there.?ÿ Here is what I sent the client: Done. When I got to the site and saw the complex drainage I realized you would want a lot more than I had envisioned, but I think you have everything you need. Let me know if you have any questions.
In other words, I agreed to do a topo for design purposes, and both the boundary and the topo turned it into a complex survey. That was now my problem to solve, and I did. I dug deeper for the monuments, and took the horizontal and vertical shots the client would need.?ÿ
My take, from the late Gex Williams: Negotiate the best price for the company, then do the best job for the client regardless of the price.
Almost everything I do is fixed fee based on a specific scope and criteria. Usually if a "client" is shopping around, I am not her guy. I have found that once I've done something for a client, they don't ask about price, only time frame and what the complications I see are. No one likes complications and delays.?ÿ?ÿ
Do my best to avoid lump sum.?ÿ It only happens when that is the only way the potential client will do things and I always tell them up front that my lump sum will almost definitely cost them more than time and materials because I will assume a worst case scenario.?ÿ But, if that is the only way they can move forward, they have a number to plug in to their planning.?ÿ Surprisingly, I have ended up with the job more times than not.?ÿ Almost never has the lump sum been inadequate.
Absolutely will not do a typical residential job on a lump sum basis.?ÿ That's because there really is no such thing as a "typical" residential job.
I prefer lump sum provided scope doesnt change. If your regular price doesnt cover things going sideways you're too cheap.
Make money and dont apologize for it.
Sounds good. But, never landing a job makes it tough to buy food. I have no intention of being "the low bidder".
Dan Beardslee was a proponent of fixed fee. But it only works if the scope is also fixed and the fee isn't rock bottom to begin with.?ÿ It does simplify the billing.?ÿ
One fellow I worked for would give a fixed fee price with the proviso that all controlling monuments of record were in place and in substantial agreement with the record. Any work to restore missing monuments was an extra at a per monument rate.?ÿ ?ÿ?ÿ
..I have no intention of being "the low bidder".
"I never lost even a penny on a job I didn't get." - Wise old surveyor
