Background: I owned/operated my own small mostly solo shop specializing in Geodetic Control and Aerial Mapping Ground and Airborne Control with a few topos and a few ALTA's, etc. in the mix pre maybe 2002, but largely geodetic/mapping stuff especially for the last 10-15 years. Since 2015 I have been on staff at an aerial mapping company (only surveyor there, so still pretty much solo, but within a larger organization) and have been on the ownership team of that business also since 2002 (ownership overlapped the time I operated the survey business solo).
Problem: I am running out of storage space for records, so without renting space, it seems the logical thing to do might be to clear out old records? We generally have been doing that with business records at the 7-10 year mark except for large purchases, but for routine business records they get purged.
For the survey records, I have 21 years and starting year 22 of files. I keep these records in my home office and each year move them to my garage. I have all of my electronic records and am thinking since I have those, paper job files may be something to get rid of? I am thinking of purging all paper files older than 10 years and then continue to do that each year. I would keep a few old files for projects that are multi year projects, but honestly even those rarely get looked out once filed in a storage box.
A quick internet search shows the statute of repose to generally be 10 years or less in all 50 states, I am thinking if a problem doesn't arise in 10 years, those records probably will never be needed for legal purposes and so are just collecting dust in the garage after that...
I know survey records are "sacred" and this goes against all we have been taught, but since very few are boundary work in my case, I just don't think I need them.
I guess I could scan them all, but honestly I don't have the time and inclination for that, I think since e-mail, documents, reports and so on are electronically saved along with all the raw data, etc. I should be covered, of course the very oldest files usually have more paper stuff because I didn't start making PDF's of reports, etc. until maybe 2000-2002 time frame.
Purge all older than 10 years, or keep? What do you think?
SHG
I purged -- I bought a document scanner and scanned everything I could to PDF. The only paper I keep now are maps or other documents that don't fit in the scanner. And I'm not waiting 10 years, either -- as soon as I'm done using it I scan it, then the paper goes in the shredder or the recycling.
You might be surprised how many outfits keep next to nothing in their files, and how many more keep what they have in such a wad as to be practically useless.
In all my years in this business, always working for others - some of them very large operations - I never received one word about what to keep in my paper files other than final drawings, and other than raw data and deliverable drawings files never one word - except at one job - about what to keep digitally. I've found that it is very uncommon to save any "raw data" other than downloaded coordinate files. So whatever you decide to keep and what to throw you are way ahead of most of your peers just by having something to keep or throw.
In the last year I have twice had the opportunity to reuse some data from an old project. It was unfortunate that in one of those cases the old data was unavailable to me. If you haven't already I'd adopt Jim's practice of keeping as much as you can in digital format. That will allow you to keep a lifetime of data on a thumb drive. If you have been doing so, then you could probably ditch (ie/ recycle) all but the most recent hard copies.
When I sold the last business I owned I scanned over 50 years of drawings. I hoped to provide them to the County to provide public access to them as "unrecorded" maps (we are a recording state). So far that has not come to fruition. All the local surveyors know that I have them, but there is only fellow who every asks for anything. I could donate the scans to a local university but their indexing capabilities are abysmal. If I had it to do over again I would dispose of everyrthing.
The firm I am with currently destroys ALL of their 8 year-old records on an annual basis (we have a 7-yr sunset clause). Their attorney told them that they were nothing more than a liability...
Put me on the scan everything list. I use the CAMScanner App on my cell phone for everything larger than the glass on my copier which was a hurdle for me at one time. It does a great job.
I cannot imagine throwing stuff away without an electronic copy. Also, I would suggest one of the online storage solutions if you have a good internet connection. If not you really need to have a way to back up off site. Like swapping a portable HD from office to safety deposit box monthly.
Steve
I just finished a review of a project that started in 1994. The bill was outrageous. My hours were bordering on ridiculous. My time was split between enjoying the puzzle and restraining myself to prevent the death of the original Surveyor.
I don't purge based on time or concerns over lawsuits. I look around each project individually. If it's likely to be resurrected later it's going in a bankers box. It's like storage for billable hours...
File formats change and many times the older ones can't be read. That can't happen with paper.
Steve Gilbert, post: 402413, member: 111 wrote: That can't happen with paper.
Tell that to all the 1990s-era faxes that I came across during my scanning project. Most of them were too faded to read.
PDF is an open format that is not likely to be superseded without an easy transition. I regard it as durable as paper, and much more flexible.
Steve Gilbert, post: 402413, member: 111 wrote: File formats change and many times the older ones can't be read
If you keep stuff in the common formats I doubt that will be a problem. The latest versions of AutoCAD will open files from version 1. I have 25 yo WordPerfect documents that I can open in MS Word. PDF is universal, not just Adobe anymore.
Stored files do become corrupted over time, that can be a problem. I'm not sure that Optical discs (DVD/CD) are the best mode of safe long term storage. Thumb drives have worked well for me.
Jim Frame, post: 402438, member: 10 wrote: Tell that to all the 1990s-era faxes that I came across during my scanning project. Most of them were too faded to read
The ones printed on thermal fax paper did fade. I meant to imply documents and maps printed on bond paper.
Steve Gilbert, post: 402451, member: 111 wrote: I meant to imply documents and maps printed on bond paper.
What kind of paper and what kind of ink? Acid-free paper is best for archival purposes, but few use it for business correspondence or map printing. Dye-based inks are know to fade over time; I think pigment-based inks are more common now, at least for black. I don't know where laser toner fits into the scenario.
Mark Mayer, post: 402445, member: 424 wrote: If you keep stuff in the common formats I doubt that will be a problem. The latest versions of AutoCAD will open files from version 1. I have 25 yo WordPerfect documents that I can open in MS Word. PDF is universal, not just Adobe anymore.
Stored files do become corrupted over time, that can be a problem. I'm not sure that Optical discs (DVD/CD) are the best mode of safe long term storage. Thumb drives have worked well for me.
I have DVDs that have stopped reading. They have a shelf life...
Thanks for the input guys, as far as file formats, I keep raw GPS files, raw TS files, etc., I also keep ASCII files of coordinates, PDF files of documents as well as native files too. So far, I have been able to open ALL documents from mid 90's forward, BUT I think some of the early GPS data files may not open any longer. I am probably going to purge, maybe selectively and maybe scan some stuff, BUT for most job folders in the banker boxes that I haven't needed or looked at in years they are probably just going into the shredder. Thinking of having a commercial shedding outfit do the honors there, too much stuff to feed a few sheets at a time.
SHG
thebionicman, post: 402465, member: 8136 wrote: I have DVDs that have stopped reading. They have a shelf life...
I am currently copying ALL DVD backups to external hard drives in duplicate, of course those may not last forever either. I keep one copy in a fireproof safe and the other on premises but outside of the safe. I have a cloud backup too, BUT it is only a mirror of what is on my PC, once deleted, it disappears from the cloud within 30 days. I suppose I could plug the external drives in once a month to keep everything in the cloud, but that would require me NOT forgetting. No extra cost to do that with my service, just the initial bandwidth to get it uploaded.
SHG
We've been in business 36 years. In my closet at home, I have three different generations of records on three different types of media. The software to read these files (even if they haven't been corrupted) is pretty much long gone. I'm ready to purge these old backups.
A few years ago, we shredded ALL the first ten years of hardcopy records without scanning anything (see above). We still have 26 years of records. In three years, we will get rid of second ten years. Who cares anymore? Don't like it, sue me! I can't remember anything anymore anyway!
Ruel del Castillo, post: 402494, member: 137 wrote: We've been in business 36 years. In my closet at home, I have three different generations of records on three different types of media. The software to read these files (even if they haven't been corrupted) is pretty much long gone. I'm ready to purge these old backups.
A few years ago, we shredded ALL the first ten years of hardcopy records without scanning anything (see above). We still have 26 years of records. In three years, we will get rid of second ten years. Who cares anymore? Don't like it, sue me! I can't remember anything anymore anyway!
You are more likely to be sued if you retain them!
Being sued has more to do with the money you retain than records...
No records, no assets, attorneys tend to move on toward more productive places.
SHG
I was just considering some temporary help to come in and do some mundane repetitive digital archiving... Some things I thought of..
starting with oldest autocad files... opening drawings, exporting the final point data file (in case it wasn't done) in .txt files and "printing" to a full scale PDF. Saving these would ensure I could reprint and plot the points for any of my files in the future.
I haven't used keywords in my files, but wonder if that could be done for PDF's?? Maybe just the street name and subdivision?
Putting all those PDFs into a master PDF for each subdivision would simplify research. I could really thin out the years of project folders, which honestly, don't get that much use, other than what would now be in PDF formats.
When I was faced with buying more filing cabinets two years ago I instead went through the file folders and tossed all the thousands of docket copies, knowing that if I ever need a copy my friends in the title business will send it over by return e-mail. Took a while to toss them all because I didn't want to overload the recycle barrel, but now I have plenty of room. My motto is: If in doubt, throw it out (but not actual survey records).