Government's Refusal to Record Surveys

Larry,
Maybe, if the public surveyor wants to render an opinion on your survey and change it, he can sign it and take the liability for it.

Another thought. Maybe if they make you change something on the survey you can add a note to the face of the survey stating that you had to change it at the demand of Mr. Public Surveyor Reg #XXXX.

Just putting some ideas out there.

JP

Unfortunately, Larry, I do not have a solution for your situation.

In California, we have a statutory method of filing maps in the case that the County Surveyor does jot wish to accept the map.

See section 8762 et seq of our Professional Land Surveyors Act for our code:

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=6727728343+0+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve

Perhaps your attorney might find some sense of reason in there.

Is you Public Surveyor and appointed position? Do they have to prove some extra ordinary education or ability? Is the quality of their licensure superior to that of a " non-Public" Surveyor?

Best of luck to you...

Larry, you say that it's their duty to file the surveys without review (as it should be in my opinion). They are not the surveyor in responsible charge and should have no authority to govern your professional opinion.

The focus that I would take in this type of situation is to, first, define their duty. Their duty is outlined in either statute or in ordinance (or a combination of both). Also, define what your duty is as a licensed surveyor. The responsible charge and filing requirements are what you must follow.

Second, file a "writ of mandamus" action against them. A writ of mandamus is an action designed to force a government agency to fulfill their duty as required by law. There is likely a step in the process where you are required to "ask permission" to file the action before you can file. This "notice" provision is there to trigger a review of the in-house processes being violated and gives them a chance to "change their ways." If that doesn't receive adequate attention, then you can file the action. If they loose, they pay all fees, costs, attorneys fees, and are forced to do their job. The idea is that a citizen should not have to pay to force the government to perform their duty in accordance with the law.

The initial notice is usually enough to get the attention of the municipal attorney who will make any corrective actions necessary, eliminating the need for the full-on action.

JBS

What JB said.
I had a similar issue not too long ago myself and started making statements that contained "writ of mandamus" and also "a case of abusive municipal authority".
Not long afterwards my plat was recorded. Your results may vary.
Good luck.

>"writ of mandamus"

Man I love this place.:hi5:

Thanks for the comments.
I'll print and take to my meeting in a few minutes.

Here the Public Surveyor actualy has a "Native Son Engineer's License" One who is born here can get a Architect's, Engineer's or Surveyors License without taking any test. And an engineer can do surveying.

To be continued

That's interesting. I don't mean to hijack the thread, but are there any education or experience requirements to get a "Native Son" license? Surveying has it own set of issues, but it seems dangerous to have such loose requirements for engineering.

Yes, Pseudo, I know there are education requirements, but I don't know details.

And my atty is confident the issues can be ironed out and the maps recorded. We'll see.

One thing I know hurts us here is that we have no professional organization. We're too competative and paranoid. And there aren't but a few of us.

Just so the rest of you guys can get a better feel for the situation let me describe the situation.

Last February I was lucky enough to meet up with Mr. Best and a couple of other guys who practice in the US Virgin Islands. Among the things we did was visit the Registrars office.

As you can see from the image, they aren't especially friendly to those who want information from the office. The sign indicating that cameras were not allowed and that photos of maps were forbidden wasn't the only one. They were posted all over the place.

We were lucky enough to see the map cabinet room. Mr. Best was there as was another long time USVI surveyor. Imagine my shock when the local folks indicated they had NEVER in their careers been allowed into the map room.

Will try to find a photo or two I took inside the map room and post those later. (Yes, I asked before taking any photos.)

Larry P

PS: Larry, hope things are well in your world .... well except for the issue this post is about.

Yep, Writ of Mandamus would be my suggestion.

I've heard of banning cameras from the records rooms before, but it's because they want to get their $1, or $5, or $20, or whatever they charge, to run the copies. I remember someone at RPLS... it might of been Ty Evans ... tried to challenge that rule in the US by taking pictures until they called the cops. There was also a court ruling posted at RPLS a couple of years ago where someone challenged both the cost of copies and the camera ban, and IIRC, won on both counts.

Just my 2 cents. Mail them certified mail, WITH a letter explaining that you have complied, and that the Co Surveyor is the broken link in the process. Then, put it in a letter to the editor. Then, call a major TV network, and tell your story, and ask them to ask the Co surveror to FILE them.

If they don't do it, well, that is tough.

IF I were the co surveyor, and I did not AGREE with something, I would STILL have the obligation to FILE it.
IF it were REAL bad, I'd send a letter to the offending party, with some polite suggestions, and comments. BUT THEY WOULD BE IN THE PUBLIC RECORD, for all to see.

Just me thinking.

N