Considering Starting a Company

If you just want to get out of the office more and are willing to take a pay cut to do it there are easier ways than going into business for yourself.

RPLS#, post: 401412, member: 12280 wrote: .... but somehow I have an itch to do my own thing....I would be a one man firm at first, doing everything, field work drafting ect. How crazy would i be to start my own thing? ... but how do you get your foot in the door?..

I see some early signs of a possible deadly case of "wannajump" If left untreated or ignored the symptoms can devour a surveyor and leave them middle-aged, complacent and sour. My suggestion would be to make a decision quickly. Indecision can cost dearly whichever way you go.

I don't know what causes these nagging thoughts of business independence, but it is hardly rare. My opinion is there is a certain amount of bull-headed independence required to make a good surveyor. That in itself may be what drives a lot of surveyors to 'travel'.

Audit your long term aspirations and act accordingly. There are advantages to both of your choices. It probably boils down to what makes you happy.

It is no secret there are probably more independent professionals than corporate in the field of surveying. I am also going to assume the large corporate firm you are with now is an engineering interest also. I personally don't think an engineering environment is the best place for a professional land surveyor, but there are plenty of surveyors out there that would argue the point.

I personally know of only one professional surveyor that stuck with a large firm his whole career. He is retired now and doing well. We worked together years ago and obtained licensure about the same time. He could never understand why someone would leave the security of a large operation to attempt a fledgling outfit. I could never understand how he put up with the BS all those years.

I don't want to say anything that would sway you one way or the other. But since you asked I will tell you 'running your own show' is one of the most satisfying accomplishments of my life. I've worked 80 hours a week before...50 in the field during the day and 30 at night getting things put together. I've gone without a paycheck so an insurance premium can get paid. I've had to take a diaper bag out of the family wagon so I could put survey gear there. I've laid in bed and worried about making equipment payments on time. And I have laid my head on my pillow at night knowing everything I had was earned. That's a good night's rest.

And I loved every minute of it. But it wasn't a Cinderella story. I went bust three times before I learned the way, I never 'quit'.

Where did the work come from? It came. It came from clients that enjoyed having a surveyor that was happy with what they were doing. It came from clients that enjoyed being able to pick up the phone and talk to not only the owner, but the guy that was actually in the field. It came from clients that realized they had a surveyor that had to hustle to make a living. It came from clients that enjoyed being able to get a hold of me at 6:30...AM or PM. Sometimes all you get after hours is voice mail at the big outfits.

Ask yourself what you really want out of your career and how hard you are willing to work for it. If you have a great amount of ambition you will succeed in both environments...but which one will satisfy you the most?

Once a person gets accustomed to having a known amount of money magically appear in their bank account on specific days of the month it is TOUGH to handle the great unknowns that come with running one's own business. You cannot track the client down and force them to make their payment just because you REALLY need it TODAY. Big money sounds like a lot of money.............until it isn't.

Holy Cow, post: 401429, member: 50 wrote: Once a person gets accustomed to having a known amount of money magically appear in their bank account on specific days of the month it is TOUGH to handle the great unknowns that come with running one's own business. You cannot track the client down and force them to make their payment just because you REALLY need it TODAY. Big money sounds like a lot of money.............until it isn't.

That is oh so true. One of the perks from working for a larger firm is that your paycheck is 100% profit.

Build up a pile of cash you can put in to the business to give yourself a cushion starting off. If the work is in your area at the moment there may be no better time

All good points above to consider... Not knowing your personal situation makes it difficult to give advice. Do you have a wife and kids to support? Is there another family income to help tide over slow times?
Have you done a lot of field work or been focused on the office side for most of your career? It may seem like a dream to get back to the dirt, but when you have to grind it out on a lonely hot day, then go to the office and spend the night drafting, you may miss that nice office. Just a thought from a solo operator.

I believe it's an adage in business that you should have enough capital to be able to operate for two years before starting a company. Although vision, hard work, and a willingness to scrape by will take you a long way.

another thought.... 40k worth of small projects sounds like something you could do on weekends/nights over a year. can you do that AND keep your job? You might find out it's not what you want, or you may fall in love with it again. lease a robot for a year and go buy a shovel.

A couple of random thoughts

RPLS#, post: 401412, member: 12280 wrote: I'm in a large metro area and there is development everywhere,

I know a lot of guys who said the same thing when they went solo in 2006

RPLS#, post: 401412, member: 12280 wrote: I'm hoping I could get more work if I make a website

Do you really want to deal with the clients that you get from a random google search?

RPLS#, post: 401412, member: 12280 wrote: I would be a one man firm at first, doing everything, field work drafting ect.

When you're sitting in an office staring out the window on a crisp autumn day it seems like heaven. When sleet is blowing horizontally on a late winter morning and you have to finish the fieldwork today, even though you wrenched your back the previous day...not so much.

I'll second that Paden said, what do you want? How much billing, marketing, etc. do you do in your current position? Because that is going to be a huge chunk of your time starting up. Are you willing to skip your kid's game because the homebuilder's association meeting is the same night? Does your wife work and, if so, does she have good benefits? it's going to be hard to match the insurance and retirement benefits from a big firm right off the bat. What type of projects do you like to work on the most, and would you reasonable be able to develop that kind of work in the first five years on your own?

I went from being a project manager at a 150 person, two office engineering firm, to solo, back to being a project manager at a 500 person twelve office consulting engineering firm. Some guys love being solo or working at a two or three man firm; for me personally I missed: working with younger surveyors and mentoring them, having other professionals around to bounce ideas off (not just boundary stuff, but pricing), and working on bigger projects without much in the way of budgetary constraints. Plus it's always nice to have engineers around when you need to bust somebody's balls for making stupid design decisions.

Have you talked to your manager about being being bored with your current work load? One thing I like about where I at currently is that the corporate director of surveys/principal that I report to has made it a point of emphasis to worry about his senior staff getting bored. Is there an opportunity for you to branch out in you current position? Maybe expand into scanning, BIM, S.U.E., playing around with drones, etc.. Or the opportunity to expand geographically. I'm current waiting on my PA test results because I live halfway between our corporate headquarters in Maryland where my office is now and our office outside of Harrisburg that just currently is staffed with structural engineers doing PennDOT bridge work. As soon as I'm licensed I'm going to be splitting my time between the two and working to build a survey, S.U.E, and land development market share up there to keep from getting bored just doing the same old thing down here.

So...that's a long winded way of saying if you want to work solo, go for it. It's certainly an answer to your concerns about feeling professionally stagnant in you current position, but it's not the only one and it may or may not be the right one.

Lee D, post: 401467, member: 7971 wrote: I believe it's an adage in business that you should have enough capital to be able to operate for two years before starting a company. Although vision, hard work, and a willingness to scrape by will take you a long way.

Wow, not sure 90% of businesses would exist if that was used by everyone. I know guys that went into business flat broke and "bumped along" just fine. Mind you, they didn't really care to build a business but rather "own their job" as I've heard it put before.

Plumb Bill, post: 401483, member: 226 wrote: Wow, not sure 90% of businesses would exist if that was used by everyone. I know guys that went into business flat broke and "bumped along" just fine. Mind you, they didn't really care to build a business but rather "own their job" as I've heard it put before.

That may have a lot to do with why 80 - 90% of new startups fail within the first two years.

Lee D, post: 401493, member: 7971 wrote: That may have a lot to do with why 80 - 90% of new startups fail within the first two years.

I think surveyors need to be in a separate catagory than just a general business startup. This is a limited skill set and not just anyone can open a surveying business. You need a license first.

Tommy Young, post: 401497, member: 703 wrote: I think surveyors need to be in a separate catagory than just a general business startup. This is a limited skill set and not just anyone can open a surveying business. You need a license first.

I agree, and I thought about that when writing the posts above. The failure rate probably applies more to storefront type businesses. However, I've seen more than one surveying firm go under over the years. But as long as you have the license and the skill set, you'll always be marketable.

Lee D, post: 401501, member: 7971 wrote: I agree, and I thought about that when writing the posts above. The failure rate probably applies more to storefront type businesses. However, I've seen more than one surveying firm go under over the years. But as long as you have the license and the skill set, you'll always be marketable.

I agree with that.

What about the Future?
I am surrounded by folks that did not plan ahead. Some were lucky, most were not. Being old, dead broke, and unable to earn a living can be brutal.
Get out of debt, all or it. Put money away, diversify your investments.
Think long term.
Most important, follow your dreams. There are no do overs.

I was never really interested in building a company.
Operating as a company takes a lot of money off the table that should be directed at me and instead is used to keep a company afloat.
My main interest was to be on my own, making my own decisions, accepting the type of work I wanted to do and in the areas I wanted to work.
I was burnt out on being managed by another person and for a system that was attempting to rule my life 24/7.
It started the day my boss got in my face and told, rather ordered, me to slow down because he could not understand what I was doing on the computer.
AT that point I realized that he was not able to do what I could do and that I was simply his tool and he expected me to do the learning and to teach him or someone else to do my job.
That had to change and did very quickly............
That was 30yrs ago and it has been a much happier place to work ever since I made the move.

Andy J, post: 401473, member: 44 wrote: go buy a shovel.

:clink:

Lee D, post: 401493, member: 7971 wrote: That may have a lot to do with why 80 - 90% of new startups fail within the first two years.

I don't think 80-90 percent of surveying startups fail within the first two years. If they do I doubt it's 100% due to cash flow, or even 75%, I would say the majority don't "fail" so much as it didn't pan out to fulfill their "hopes and dreams". There is an entire spectrum of what "starting a business" means, and what the different cash outlays entail to enable success at different parts of that spectrum. I would say if you just want to be a solo practitioner for a conservative approach you need enough cash to buy some used equipment (or new if you research the best value) and 90 days cash flow. It's been my experience that if Ma and Pa farm-owner don't pay within 30 days they probably never will.

The biggest pitfall I see is thinking you can start solo and build a business with the cash outlay outlined above and build into a multi-crew machine. The cash flow/revenue generated by a solo operation would take a long time to create growth without additional financing, but if the owner started to pick up the odd returning commercial client that might not be a bad idea.

It all depends on the individual. Optimistic usually equals going broke chasing unrealistic goals; pessimistic usually doesn't grow (or doesn't go into business to begin with); you want to be the pragmatist. One must be able to make good decisions all along the way while being self motivated enough to put in the hours.

"I think mostly I'm tired of being in the office all day, my productivity is suffering and frankly i'm just getting bored with it.."

Just ask to work in the field again, no big deal..