I have a client who started construction on a residence before a new county ordinance requiring permits took effect, but construction was finished after permits were required.
At least a portion of the client's property lies in Zone A according to the current FIRM although a BFE has not been determined. The COE office has requested some cross sections from client to determine BFE.
Anyway, the local-yokel county CFM has told my client that if the structure is less than 2' above the BFE, the house will have to be torn down....and they may face jail time.
This guy must be a hoot. He's got the client's scared and bewildered. I'm headed down there today. I hope I don't run into him, my blood-sugar might not be quite right...we'll see.
Better tread carefully until you get all the facts. While no permits may have been required for construction, the county may have voted some time ago to participate in the NFIP. If they did that could have made it illegal to build in a flood zone. If so, your client may have been in violation whether a permit was required or not.
While I'm sure you wouldn't, don't aggravate the situation. Make it a fact finding trip with a smile on your face.
Give him H E double hockeysticks. What a maroon?
Overzealous would be the correct term. Expressing such outrageous threats at the first opportunity suggests that the county commission needs to reconsider having him in such a position representing them amongst their constituents.
Oh, I'm a jolly old plump and sunburned surveyor, what do I know?
I'm keepin' quiet 'til we know where the house sits (I'm pretty sure it's a few feet above). I just get aggravated at hick 'guvmint' when it seems that they are over-impressed with their authority. My God, it's the 21st. century.
Over-zealous Surveyor?
Don't give anybody he11.....you have no dog in this fight.
Over-zealous Surveyor?
Not givin' anybody anything except cross sections to the COE and an Elevation Cert to the client.
Foolish County Employee
This ain't New Yawk City. This is hick county middle-o-nowhere. Odds are high that the county is not even participating in the NFIP. Many do not.
In Smalltown, USA many of the controlling issues widely accepted in other parts of the world are openly disdained. Once the county commissioners begin to receive complaints from their longtime friends and neighbors about this guy, they will either remove him or retract their new policies. It really is that simple.
"Anyway, the local-yokel county CFM has told my client that if the structure is less than 2' above the BFE, the house will have to be torn down....and they may face jail time."
Why two feet above the BFE?
That sounds odd.
Actually, It Doesn't Really Matter.........
.......if you are in Midtown Manhattan or Smallville, USA.
The CFM may well be wrong in his statement, but escalating the situation isn't in your client's best interests.
I'm with Dave Ingram on this.
No one is going to make your client tear down the house just like that.....so why rush in like a bull in a china shop and create hard feelings?
Sounded odd to me, too. But here's their app:
McClain County Floodplain Mgmt.
I guess they just thought that would be sufficient.
The CEO needs to be fired for making a statement like that! I am assuming for purposes of this thread that he did make the quoted statement.
Powers Delegated to County Officials
Just for the record, officials in charge of flood plains and other planning officials have the statutory right to remedy violations , i.e., as this portion of the regulations in Randolph County WV:
"Violation: The failure of any structure or development to be fully compliant with all requirements of this ordinance. A structure or other development without the elevation certificate, other certifications, or other evidence of compliance required by this ordinance is presumed to be in violation until such time as that documentation is provided."
"Any structure constructed, reconstructed, enlarged, altered or relocated in non-compliance with this ordinance may be declared by the Randolph County commission to be a public nuisance and abatable as such."
Powers Delegated to County Officials
The final authority is the courts. Whether or not the CEO has the authority or not is not the issue. The issue is the rude manor in which he apparently interacted with the homeowner.
The two feet above BFE may be what the county has established by local ordinance, and they're allowed to do that as long as it's more restrictive than FEMA's or the State's requirement.
See, This Is What I Don't Get......
......how people draw all kinds of conclusions from the written word.
Original quote from the first post: "..... the local-yokel county CFM has told my client that if the structure is less than 2' above the BFE, the house will have to be torn down....and they may face jail time."
Now, this might not be good news, but we have NO IDEA in what manner this message was delivered.
All of our information is minimum THIRD HAND. Paden Cash is telling us what his client told him that the CFM told him.
Ever play "Telephone" or "Post Office" when you were a kid?
We have no idea what the CFM REALLY said to the client.
The CFM could have calmly sat the guy down and read the regulations to him.
The CFM could have simply stated several possible outcomes.
The link posted does in fact state the 2 foot requirement, so that doesn't appear to be wrong. The facts seem to indicate that this construction was started under one set of rules, and finished after another set was devised......perhaps instead of ranting and raving, an attorney should be consulted.
Yet, Paden Cash is worried about his "blood sugar", Holy Cow wants to "give him he11" and remove him from his position, and Merlin wants to fire him, mostly because he seems to think he was "rude".
These are knee-jerk reactions......not likely to do the client any good. A true professional owes his client more than this.
Angelo
This is an Internet site not a court of law. We are shooting from the hip because all of this is second or third hand information-I think everyone understands this except maybe you. If we were to take your position when responding to threads then no one could respond because of our lack of verifiable information. This is an Internet site and we all throw in our best comments for what they is worth all the while realizing the actual set of facts may differ from what we are commenting on.
My statement stands. If a CEO told a citizen that he could be facing jail time during a cursory meeting at the town hall, I would consider him to be ignorant and rude and to be making a threat. In small towns that type of behavior is not tolerated. I guarantee you no such action would be undertaken without the full consent of the town government and their attorney which most likely would never happen.
Angelo
"This is an Internet site not a court of law. We are shooting from the hip..."
People post here looking for advice they can use (although in this case, Paden did really ask for any advice).
I post what I would do if I were in their shoes, in this case, interacting with their client and with regulatory entities.
If your client wants his structure to be finished, approved and occupied, a belligerent attitude with the CFM isn't going to accomplish that. Calling for him to be fired isn't going to accomplish that.
In my opinion, what Paden says he is going to do ("Not givin' anybody anything except cross sections to the COE and an Elevation Cert to the client.") is probably a wise course at this point.
See, This Is What I Don't Get......
......how people draw all kinds of conclusions from the written word.
Some people are even worse with videos.
Angelo
I don't have any problem with what you said. My comments were about the demeanor of the CEO from a third person perspective. I certainly would not confront the CEO if I was directly involved in the issue; that would be the job of the client's attorney if it came down to that level.
In any event, if the CEO actually said what is purported, he is indeed not a good representative for the town and should be fired.
Too bad we don't have some that are that zealous about obeying the state law that requires them to maintain all section corners and quarter corners that are in county roads.
SJ
