http://www.pobonline.com/articles/97521-what-is-the-sign-telling-the-surveyor
What is The Sign Telling The Surveyor?
Imagine a patient who describes symptoms to a physician who in turn prescribes treatment by citing the Colorado Revised Statutes. Preposterous — could never happen. That’s true, but that is where we are as land surveyors
Why does the land surveyor need instruction from the state legislature on how to put that, or any other, reality into practice? Apparently, the thinking is that land surveyors can’t be trusted. That thinking is the problem.
Professional standing is founded in trust, not just for surveyors but for any profession. Once institutional trust is established, it’s the responsibility of the surveyor to earn individual trust through professional practice. The state undermines institutional trust when it replaces professional expertise with a statute.
Powerful statements.
[sarcasm]Yep, it sounds like we need to lower the licensing requirements even further....[/sarcasm]
You can not circumvent and/or sidestep the law to satisfy some hack down at city hall.
You do and it will always bite you in the a$$ :-O
If I had done the survey for the development, staked the sign and finished an as-built survey last week, I would tell him he could pound sand for the $200. $200 is not worth the time for Project Setup. I would also call the City Planner and tell him what he needs to charge for a review fee. Sadly, some surveyor will probably do it for $200. I guess you could make money doing it with Google Earth.
My understanding of the creation of the ILC was back in the seventies by lobbyist for the real estate commission to have an inexpensive survey provided to lenders to help expedite closings.
I quoted $1250.00 for an ILC and the client accepted it. When I was done and ready for payment and to deliver, I asked if an ISP (Improvement Survey Plat) would be acceptable rather than the ILC and I explained the difference. Guess which one they wanted? I'll do ILC's, but not for $200.00.
SD
Don't think, however, that the physician isn't micromanaged as well. The State Statutes don't micromanage him, they are instructed on what to do by patient's insurance companies.
Regardless, the professional needs leeway to practice his/her area of expertise.
Everything sounds better in Latin...
Adversis hostibus occurrebant ac nos hic sumus.
Tennessee allows for those monstrosities.
I won't do them.
The public thinks lines on paper from a surveyor are a survey. No amount of disclaimers will ever change that.
On one hand I consider the differences between the professions. On the other I think about what I see around me.
In most States we are a minority of the licensees governed by our Boards. We almost always make up the majority of investigations.
Back to the Doctor thing.
When a patient goes for a second opinion, the doc doesn't ask the competing physicians price and offer to undercut (pun intended) by a few hundred dollars.
When a doctor spends his career studying the laws of nature for the sole purpose of subverting them, the village gathers round and burns him. When we subvert the law on behalf of our clients they cut a check and shake our hand.
I could go on all day but my sense of humor rarely translates well in print. The bottom line is simple. If we want respect we earn it. Take part in setting the policies that govern us and police our own.
Taking it to a more personal level, act (survey) in a manner that allows you to look in the mirror. Its really that simple.
Are ILCs really that bad?
> Tennessee allows for those monstrosities.
>
> I won't do them.
>
> The public thinks lines on paper from a surveyor are a survey. No amount of disclaimers will ever change that.
We don't have ILCs in Florida, but sometimes wonder if we should.
In Florida to get a mortgage, you have to have a boundary survey of the property that is being financed. That sounds great and all, but with the pressure in the mortgage market to keep the costs down, the "surveys" that you end up getting are so stripped down (generally no title review and very little research beyond the surface level), they are probably not much better than a ILC. It seems to me with the ILC, surveyors are able to segregate the superior product (the boundary survey) from the the cheap inspection (the ILC), instead of having to bastardize the boundary survey to fit into a very price driven mortgage market. If all the bank is concerned about is whether the house is on the lot or not, why not give them just that and charge accordingly (and not call it a survey)?
Good post Tom.
> On one hand I consider the differences between the professions. On the other I think about what I see around me.
> In most States we are a minority of the licensees governed by our Boards. We almost always make up the majority of investigations.
Why is that?
It is simply because that is what WE have allowed to happen. WE simply REFUSE to be self-governing like the other respected professions. Why is that? Simply because the ones that WE have allowed allow to govern us now refuse to let go of that power and will stop at nothing to demonize those who would question them; and we, as a profession, don't have the courage or leadership to change this unfortunate situation. Maybe someday - but I'm not gonna hold my breath.
> I could go on all day but my sense of humor rarely translates well in print. The bottom line is simple. If we want respect we earn it. Take part in setting the policies that govern us and police our own.
Been there, done that, and still being vilified (and paying for) for trying.
> Taking it to a more personal level, act (survey) in a manner that allows you to look in the mirror. Its really that simple.
Yep, it is that simple. But the $100,000 question is - when will we (our profession - through our "professional societies?) decide to do it? When others demand it or when we step up to the plate and demand it of ourselves? I think I know the answer. In my state it is quite obvious.
Are ILCs really that bad?
Doesn't Florida have what's called a "mortgage survey"?
That is exactly why I am not in favor of laws to force people to get surveys.
Are ILCs really that bad?
> Doesn't Florida have what's called a "mortgage survey"?
>
> That is exactly why I am not in favor of laws to force people to get surveys.
There is nothing in our statutes or administrative code that is referred to as a "mortgage survey". The term is colloquially used among real estate agents, title companies and mortgage lenders for a boundary survey that facilitates the procurement of a mortgage. There are no special requirements that differentiates a "mortgage survey" from any other boundary survey.
Are ILCs really that bad?
I'm getting my states mixed up. Maybe I'm thinking about Illinois.
Thank you for the thoughts Brian. I have been reflecting on the various opinions brought out by our current Legislative efforts. While it is obvious a disconnect exists I believe we have a strong foundation.
Unless we have a very quiet write in candidate, I'll be VP in about 2 weeks. That gives me 2 years to better my understanding of the communication structure and underlying issues within ISPLS. I have good handle on a lot of it but nothing replaces first hand experience and direct involvement.
It would be premature and foolish to make a bunch of promises about things I don't yet fully understand. I can commit to making sure every Chapter is heard and decisions of any consequence will be based on the best communication possible. That will do no good if it isn't a 2 way street.
We shall see...
I'll be riding up to Boise with John, Matt, & Loyal, and am looking forward to conversing with you over a beer or two.