Tom Adams, post: 387177, member: 7285 wrote: Oh....I wasn't paying attention. It's a subdivision plat. If the subdivision plat is actually creating the easement, you need to state who the beneficiary of that easement is and what it's for. I was responding earlier as though it were a survey plat, and you were showing a pre-existing easement.
of course. and your addendum is correct as well. this is a raw piece of land- a remainder of a parent tract that has been sliced up and all around, this being the last remaining piece. out of that parent tract, and over this remainder tract, there were a number of easements dedicated over the years to serve either a gas pipeline or utility service to the various platted subdivisions adjoining this remainder. they are recorded easements, granted to various private entities. now, by what measure does showing the dedicated location of the easements and the recording information for the dedication thereof fail to sufficiently identify the same? if it was dedicated to lone star gas pipeline in 1975, who cares? which is to say- good luck getting hold of lone star gas pipeline company. it doesn't exist. now while i see some marginal benefit to acknowledging the grantee of the easement, it is seemingly fraught with many more headaches- namely that in many cases the tidal wave of text and graphical information on the plat makes it significantly more difficult to interpret. which may be a mamby pamby complaint, however i've always understood one latent purpose of a subdivision plat to be simplifying the interpretation of land boundaries for the layperson. kind of like why i don't get all arty farty with fonts or graphics- the point is to clearly delineate the location of boundaries and encumbrances.
this is a city that has been extremely out front in terms of plat requirements, for a while now. for instance, you record a plat there and you have to show a benchmark. pray tell what purpose a benchmark serves on a subdivision plat. i just got off the phone with the head city engineering reviewer and he laughed when i asked him to explain the reasoning for requiring a benchmark on a subdivision plat. i get that it looks handy to the average joe, but it's just mayonnaise- cool to have, but i dare you to find 3 random plats recorded in this particular city in the past 20 years that have a sufficient description of which NAVD88 geoid the elevation on the plat (that has nothing to do with the location of the boundaries) is based upon.
bottom line, for me, is a bunch of non-surveyors trying to force a bunch of non-survey related information onto a survey document. and the problem is they hold the key- to a large extent you have to jump through their hoops to get your plat approved.
WA-ID Surveyor, post: 387184, member: 6294 wrote: We're in the same boat. This is an every day occurence around here. Not so sure what all the fuss is about, simply supply the documents,
fine, what then 10 years down the road when the same easements have been assigned another time or three? what good does supplying the documents at the time of recordation do then?
my fuss has to do with the incremental changes in requirements that come off as completely innocuous in and of themselves to most people (i'd even go so far as to say most surveyors around here). but you're preparing a document whose main purpose is to fix boundaries- almost to the exclusion of any other purpose save dedicating easements and setbacks- the plat requirements around here have some i see looking more like an ALTA with every single table A item checked. that's a whole lot of rope to be hung with.
Okay....I get it. I bet my confusion was the reviewer's confusion as well. That person has a checklist he looks @ that say all easements need to have the beneficiary's name. S/He is used to reviewing subdivision plats and it is the norm for him. The trouble with non-surveyor reviewers and some surveyor reviewers is that they are used to telling other's what to do and not very comfortable with listening to someone explain what they don't really understand.
bingo. issue then being that many of these municipalities might as well have plumbers reviewing plats.
after an hour on the phone with the head reviewer/P.E., he laughed and said "tough cookie."
flyin solo, post: 387191, member: 8089 wrote: bingo. issue then being that many of these municipalities might as well have plumbers reviewing plats.
Except they couldn't afford plumbers' rates ...
I/we have a title report for every subdivision and include it and all referenced documents for the reviewer. Sometimes this package is lengthy and I doubt that a planner or engineer reviewing my work even looks at or understands it. But I am there for them if they have questions. Having the documents does not absolve us from keeping our eyes open to other matters on the ground. Countless times I have found mistakes in these reports, on the referenced documents, or noticed things like facilities where there were no provided documents. I have never once (in almost 40 years) had a title company thank me for alerting them to mistakes in their work. Not that I require it but it would be nice.
You could provide a list of Beneficiaries'. Such as John Doe, The City of Poor View, Bumb County, The Big Electric Company, Heirs, Assigns, the Party and on and on. You gotta ask why? And find a way to train them to understand what they are looking at and what they actually want from you. It probably is something completely different.
flyin solo, post: 387117, member: 8089 wrote: comment from city reviewer for subdivision plat approval:
"provide a list of beneficiaries of all existing easements."
"ALL BEINGS WHO NOW LIVE, HAVE LIVED IN THE PAST, MAY LIVE IN THE FUTURE, THEIR HEIRS AND ASSIGNS MAY BENEFIT."
Is the request a requirement per the subdivision ordinance. If not then NO I would deny the request.
That's like determining which plant will become the beneficiary of each breath that I exhale ...
Around here all easemens are shown on the subdivision, with reference to the original source. All of which is suppplied to the approving agency. Not much you can be responsible for if the easements change are you subdivide the property and there is no use complaining to the reviewer if the items are a requirement. If they are not required, they are not required.
That's exactly what I'd show. Now take, say, your 30' ingress/egress easement and tack "to William Shakespeare" onto it. What is the added benefit of doing so?
flyin solo, post: 387236, member: 8089 wrote: That's exactly what I'd show. Now take, say, your 30' ingress/egress easement and tack "to William Shakespeare" onto it. What is the added benefit of doing so?
It doesn't matter what the benefit is. What matters is the city subdivision ordinance. If their request is not a part of that ordinance and they continue to require a list beneficiaries, it may time for your client's attorney to have chat with the city attorney.
Just my 0.02.
flyin solo, post: 387236, member: 8089 wrote: That's exactly what I'd show. Now take, say, your 30' ingress/egress easement and tack "to William Shakespeare" onto it. What is the added benefit of doing so?
The benifit in stating who the easement was originally granted to is that anyone can look at the plat and understand what kind of encumbrance is on the land. There is a big difference in an access easement granted to a neighboring residential lot and one granted to a nearby Walmart, but tracking down the current easment holders is pointless and a waste of time. If the easment changes in scope there has to be a new or amended easement recorded, so the original grantee should be sufficient.
I bet the reviewer is either misinterpreting the city code or the city code was written by somebody who didn't understand what they were asking for.
I can remember a time when between the efforts put into a Title Commitment and the Closing Attorney pressure to close and the Realtor hoovering, they or the owner provided answers and fetching of research and would take care of red tape with the differing agencies.
All I had to do was survey the land with that info and, poof, another pay day.
Having to do the research can keep a solo surveyor having to research during banking hours and prime field time.
Mileage and hours in the records office that have no direct online source.
4hr time can turn into 2 days of brain don't fail me now time.
:bomb:
My take is I'm an expert in land boundaries and land title both. Making determinations for either is all billable hours. If land title is outside your arena of expertise then sub it out and include a mark up. Don't forget the indemnity clause in your sub's contract.
[USER=81]@A Harris[/USER]
..... and the Realtor hoovering.....
So, what I'm understanding here is that the Realtor@ was threatening with you with bodily harm by using a vacuum cleaner.
Or, with real hooves such as those found on horses and cattle.
[USER=50]@Holy Cow[/USER]
Hoovering - the act of flying around over the shoulder and nosing themselves into your business instead of doing any actual help, aka "hoover-parent syndrome". It is always on the phone because none of them would actually say any of that to you face to face in your office.
One less "o", please.
hovåáer
èöhªvªr/
verb
gerund or present participle: hovering
- remain in one place in the air.
"army helicopters hovered overhead"
synonyms: be suspended, be poised, https://www.google.com/search?biw=1426&bih=785&q=define+hang&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiW2Z-qtNDOAhUIxmMKHYOSB4gQ_SoIHjAA&apos ;">hang, https://www.google.com/search?biw=1426&bih=785&q=define+levitate&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiW2Z-qtNDOAhUIxmMKHYOSB4gQ_SoIHzAA&apos ;">levitate, https://www.google.com/search?biw=1426&bih=785&q=define+float&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiW2Z-qtNDOAhUIxmMKHYOSB4gQ_SoIIDAA&apos ;">float;
https://www.google.com/search?biw=1426&bih=785&q=define+fly&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiW2Z-qtNDOAhUIxmMKHYOSB4gQ_SoIIjAA&apos ;">fly
"helicopters hovered overhead"- remain poised uncertainly in one place or between two states.
"her hand hovered over the console"
- (of a person) wait or linger close at hand in a tentative or uncertain manner.
"she hovered anxiously in the background"
synonyms: https://www.google.com/search?biw=1426&bih=785&q=define+linger&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiW2Z-qtNDOAhUIxmMKHYOSB4gQ_SoIJTAA&apos ;">linger, https://www.google.com/search?biw=1426&bih=785&q=define+loiter&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiW2Z-qtNDOAhUIxmMKHYOSB4gQ_SoIJjAA&apos ;">loiter, wait (around); More
- .
- .
- .
- .Hoovering is a technique that is named after the Hoover vacuum cleaner, and is used by Narcissists (and other manipulative people) in order to ÛÏsuckÛ their victims back into a relationship with them. Hoovering is often done after the silent treatment is given or the victim has left them.
- remain poised uncertainly in one place or between two states.
:scream: my bad
either can describe the third party to our work that never pays for what they want.
flyin solo, post: 387117, member: 8089 wrote: comment from city reviewer for subdivision plat approval:
"provide a list of beneficiaries of all existing easements."
Ha ha ha
Ha ha ha
Maybe suzie and Joe were used to makin out on that lot, for the last xx years. MAYBE they have a prescriptive easement, to go over there. Do you list Suzie and Joe's kid?
I mean, where is the sand pounder?
Where is that story, about the old man, who walked to the 7-11 every day, and got his smokes, and the construction crew cussed him for jumping over the dug trenches, and he sued, and shut down the whole construction program, until he died?
Prescriptive easements.
What about the guy that shot his gun at a target over there, "often" and has gained prescriptive rights?
Too funy
N