In recent months the lenders have been requiring completed paperwork for the remainder of original tracts of land after severing a couple of acres for home loans.
I've had to go back to a finished severance and then add the remainder property descriptions that the owner has no liens on or any lease or other encumbrances.
Am not understanding why and every time it costs the client a couple of hundred dollars on each end, on the ground and at the bank for an extra unnecessary document to be recorded.
The lender simply has started requiring it and then extending the loan another 30 days and it costs the client extra out of pocket money and they lose on the points also and it raises the dollar amount of their monthly payments in the process.
I have had to add that unknown factor into my new numbers for my clients to budget for their projects.
I am not sure I understand what "completed paperwork" means, but it certainly makes sense that when you subdivide a parcel, that both parts have a description. There is inherent danger in owning a parcel adjacent to one that doesnt have a description that agrees with yours.
Of course there is room for mentorship. Construction/mining surveying requires a lot of knowledge too, but having worked on both sides, I can tell you there is very little in common with the two careers. The very very few that can do both well deserve admiration. One of the dangers in treating them as the same profession is that it gives practitioners a false sense of confidence when attempting to do a task they are ill equipped to carry out.?ÿ
I wouldn't want a life time mining surveyor to get anywhere near any boundary that requires more than putting numbers on the ground, and I wouldn't attempt to survey a mine. In both cases, the fact that a surveyor thinks they can cross discipline easily is enough evidence for me that they shouldn't do it.?ÿ
State boards tend to address this by telling us we shouldn't work outside our area of expertise. I think there should be a harder line.?ÿ
Completed paperwork is a drawing and property description to be placed in a deed or other property recording in public records.
The survey order was to cut 2 acres from a 97.5 acre tract of land that has no exiting lien and that I did with only having to survey two sides of the parent tract.
No lien is being made on the remainder and the lender for the 2ac and new home wants the rest of the 97.5 acres surveyed.
I can usually set the TS in one place and GPS in the distant monuments and several local locations, locate the house and improvements, and control points and set new monuments and it is done.
They are turning a simple home loan survey into a very expensive survey so the owner can make the final draft and pay their contractor.
This has been happening for the last three months and it is not necessary.
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Having a client spend money needlessly is a good thing especially if it is a lot of money and while you may not see a need for it or understand his reasoning if the person with the money wants it then who am I to argue.
Enjoy it while you are able.
I guess I don't see it the way you do. The purpose of creating a new parcel for the house, is to transfer an interest to the bank. I am sure your client doesn't forsee loosing their house to the bank, but the bank knows they end up with properry regularlarly. When that happens, or your client decides to sell the house and keep the land, suddenly they only have half a survey.
You are creating two parcels. I wouldn't agree to leave one in limbo.
The real question is why banks won't issue loans for houses with the land.
You know, i thought I understood what you were trying to describe but maybe not, let's see if I understand.?ÿ
Aren't out cutting out a small 2 acre tract from a larger 95 acre tract so the landowner can build a house on the small tract?
And if he looses the house and 2 acres he still keeps the 95 acre tract?
Is that what you're describing? That is as common as kudzu around here.
Respectfully, John, I disagree.
Revenue is a key performance indicator of the success of a business. It is one of the ingredients that measures the value of a business.
But you changed the premise of what I was saying. Profit was part of the calculation in the scenario I presented.
Changing the scenario a different way - say it cost $850 to do the job and using profit as measure.
Other surveyor: $50 profit.
Tim V. PLS: $0.00
To that I would say, having a decent relationship with your local competitors is a good business practice. So no.
But from a purely economic standpoint, yes.
If that's the road you go, though, someone else is willing to undercut you.
10%, 20%, 50%... doesn't matter. The other guy got money, I got zero.
Here's my real example:
We bid $1.2 million for a project. Other bids came in at $1.15 mil, $1.18 mil and $1.24 million. We're sorta in the middle of the pack.
But there is one more at... $850,000. Post bid meeting concluded the low bidder had all the required elements for the project. They simple decided they could live with a much lower profit margin.
So...
Again on the score:
Tim V. PLS:$0.00
Other surveyor: $850,000.
I would rather have taken the project at $850,000 with a lower profit margin than not have the project at all.
I will concede that gross margin is more important than gross revenue.
10%, 20%, 50%... doesn't matter. The other guy got money, I got zero.
Here's my real example:
We bid $1.2 million for a project. Other bids came in at $1.15 mil, $1.18 mil and $1.24 million. We're sorta in the middle of the pack.But there is one more at... $850,000. Post bid meeting concluded the low bidder had all the required elements for the project. They simple decided they could live with a much lower profit margin.
So...
Again on the score:
Tim V. PLS:$0.00
Other surveyor: $850,000.I would rather have taken the project at $850,000 with a lower profit margin than not have the project at all.
No offense man but that is ridiculous.?ÿ You would lower your price so you could make less profit in today's business climate? By doing so you would leave 300k on the table.?ÿ If i took a job knowing I left 300k of pure profit on the table I would be looking for a new profession.?ÿ?ÿ
Oh I imagine someone is gonna jump on this like a duck on a June Bug.
You were under bid by $350,000. More than 1/3 of a million.
Now you're telling us that you would have been willing to accept a lower profit margin. Now in the survey world we TYPICALLY don't operate on large margins so if you had $350,000 in fat it would seem your margins are huge.
Or the other guy had a different scope and is gonna make it up on extras.
He bid $1.2 million so it would be a $350,000 difference.
I'm so glad someone else is calling BS on that kind of business practice. If it cost him $1.2 million then that is the price and you cannot arbitrarily say........well what the heck I'm gonna go low and loose my a$$ but I will bring in $850k in revenue, no matter if it costs us $1.2 mil.
Robbing from Peter to pay Paul.
Respectfully, John, I disagree.
Revenue is a key performance indicator of the success of a business. It is one of the ingredients that measures the value of a business.
But you changed the premise of what I was saying. Profit was part of the calculation in the scenario I presented.
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Changing the scenario a different way - say it cost $850 to do the job and using profit as measure.
Other surveyor: $50 profit.
Tim V. PLS: $0.00
?ÿI'd rather do nothing for 0$ than take on a survey job for $50 profit.?ÿ That's just a race to the bottom.?ÿ?ÿ
NOT pure profit. Actually the other surveyor is working with almost NO profit. However, the other surveyor has 9 guys/gals working on the project with $500,000+ additional revenue this year.
In the long run, having that revenue is better than not having it.
$1.2 is not the cost. It's the price with overhead, cost of goods, etc. and profit.
Other surveyor decided on almost NO profit.
?ÿI'd rather do nothing for 0$ than take on a survey job for $50 profit.?ÿ That's just a race to the bottom.?ÿ?ÿ
I agree.
But from a purely business/economic sense, 50 is better that zero.
You got it right. The client owns the property outright not owing anyone.
I simply do not understand the requirement to survey the entire 97.5 acres to satisfy the bank. Most of this property is a dynamic forest that needs line dozed rather than cut with a machete at this time of summer.
Instead of completing his closing in a timely manner, they extended the date 30 days that will cost him an extra $200 for the extension and he will lose promised points that will make his monthly payments more and the terms last possibly longer.
Now, he has to find an extra $6k to satisfy the bank over a $45 loan.
The client must also has to wait until I can return to his place. I am now committed and underway on another survey to divide 250± acres for a family that expects me to maintain our schedule.
Let's say that Justa Surveyor gets a long term contract that pays him a good rate for 24 hours a week. Every week. That income alone is enough pay for his equipment, trucks, office, etc as well as cover good benefits for employees.?ÿ All is well.
Except that to keep his employees happy, he needs to pay them for 40 hours a week. Justa needs 16 hours per week worth of jobs to fill the gap. The income from those jobs need not pay for equipment and benefits. Those things are already paid for.?ÿ So he snaps up 16 hours per week worth of local fence staking jobs at rates that sometimes barely cover the employee wages.?ÿ ?ÿ?ÿ
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