Calendars were hard to come by back then...maybe it didn't matter what year it was!
Okay. I'll bite. What is a "Time Meridian"?
I'm gonna take a guess that he took a sun shot?
look at it vs plat 46 'lipscomb and earnest addition to takoma park' though. usually i see the statement...'to the true meridian' rather than 'to the time meredian'. brainfart at the drafting table?
heck...
I was looking at the bottom of the doc. It was filed a year before it was certified.
heck...
> I was looking at the bottom of the doc. It was filed a year before it was certified.
Closer to 6 months, but still a long time. Wonder if that was an election year or if the recorder job was vacant.
heck...
Here you file your surveys in the County Surveyors Records. You Record Plats in the County Clerks Records. Both Public Records but not of equal legal status. The dates are probably correct for the two different actions.
jud
I would go with Jame's educated guess.
when I saw time meridian, I thought of a some type local meridian
It looks like the Wash. Time would be in proximity to the site and LOCAL surveyors would be cognizant of it.
Plus, wouldn't they be the same? True and Wash. time?
Nice plat for way back then.
heck...
> Here you file your surveys in the County Surveyors Records. You Record Plats in the County Clerks Records. Both Public Records but not of equal legal status. The dates are probably correct for the two different actions.
> jud
That would be a big leap of faith to me, especially, having the same June 1st date.
When I saw it, I thought that the 1912 typewritten date was a typo by some secretary.
So I would lean to the handwritten correction of 1911.
but that is a w a g
robert hill, after further review...
here are some citations and notes. looks like en jackson, although he couldn't spell meridian, used the time meredian note many times in his plats, but used record bearings in resubdivisions. there is also one plat where he claims 'line meredian'.
no other surveyor, in that area and that time span, used a 'time meridian'. was he using astronomic techniques that no one else did?
EN JACKSON PLATS
http://msa.maryland.gov/megafile/msa/stagser/s1200/s1249/007900/007911/tif/dsl07911-1.tif
TRUE MERIDIAN MARCH 1909
http://msa.maryland.gov/megafile/msa/stagser/s1200/s1249/007900/007921/tif/dsl07921-1.tif
RECORD BEARINGS OCT 1909
http://msa.maryland.gov/megafile/msa/stagser/s1200/s1249/007900/007913/tif/dsl07913-1.tif
RESUBDIVISION NO BEARING BASIS STATEMENT JULY 1909
http://msa.maryland.gov/megafile/msa/stagser/s1200/s1249/007900/007940/tif/dsl07940-1.tif
TRUE BEARINGS JAN 1910
http://msa.maryland.gov/megafile/msa/stagser/s1200/s1249/007900/007946/tif/dsl07946-1.tif
TIME MEREDIAN JUNE 1910
http://msa.maryland.gov/megafile/msa/stagser/s1200/s1249/007900/007952/tif/ds07952-1.tif
RESUBDIVISION NO BEARING BASIS STATEMENT NOV 1910
http://msa.maryland.gov/megafile/msa/stagser/s1200/s1249/007900/007960/tif/dsl07960-1.tif
TIME MEREDIAN SEPT 1912
http://msa.maryland.gov/megafile/msa/stagser/s1200/s1249/008000/008007/tif/dsl08007-1.tif
TIME MEREDIAN APRIL 1919
http://msa.maryland.gov/megafile/msa/stagser/s1200/s1249/008000/008014/tif/dsl08014-1.tif
TIME MEREDIAN JAN 1900
http://msa.maryland.gov/megafile/msa/stagser/s1200/s1249/008000/008017/tif/dsl08017-1.tif
TIME MEREDIAN SEPT 1919
http://msa.maryland.gov/megafile/msa/stagser/s1200/s1249/008000/008016/tif/dsl08016-1.tif
TIME MEREDIAN DEC 1919
http://msa.maryland.gov/megafile/msa/stagser/s1200/s1249/008000/008015/tif/dsl08015-1.tif
TIME MEREDIAN NOV 1919
http://msa.maryland.gov/megafile/msa/stagser/s1200/s1249/008000/008036/tif/dsl08036-1.tif
TIME MERIDIAN DEC 1919
http://msa.maryland.gov/megafile/msa/stagser/s1200/s1249/008000/008052/tif/dsl08052-1.tif
LINE MEREDIAN AUG 1922
OTHERS' PLATS
http://msa.maryland.gov/megafile/msa/stagser/s1200/s1249/007900/007976/tif/dsl07976-1.tif
CJ MADDOX TRUE MERIDIAN SEPT 1911
http://msa.maryland.gov/megafile/msa/stagser/s1200/s1249/008000/008031/tif/dsl08031-1.tif
MADDOX AND STARKEY TRUE MERIDIAN JULY 1920
http://msa.maryland.gov/megafile/msa/stagser/s1200/s1249/008000/008035/tif/dsl08035-1.tif
MADDOX AND STARKEY MAR 1922
http://msa.maryland.gov/megafile/msa/stagser/s1200/s1249/008000/008037/tif/dsl08037-1.tif
MADDOX AND STARKEY MAR 1922
http://msa.maryland.gov/megafile/msa/stagser/s1200/s1249/008000/008039/tif/dsl08039-1.tif
MADDOX AND STARKEY FEB 1922
http://msa.maryland.gov/megafile/msa/stagser/s1200/s1249/008000/008087/tif/dsl08087-1.tif
MADDOX AND STARKEY MAY 1924
http://msa.maryland.gov/megafile/msa/stagser/s1200/s1249/007900/007998/tif/dsl07998-1.tif
GEORGE JACKSON TRUE MERIDIAN
http://msa.maryland.gov/megafile/msa/stagser/s1200/s1249/008000/008005/tif/dsl08005-1.tif
JN STARKEY TRUE MERIDIAN MAY 1919
http://msa.maryland.gov/megafile/msa/stagser/s1200/s1249/008000/008026/tif/dsl08026-1.tif
JN STARKEY TRUE MERIDIAN AUG 1919
http://msa.maryland.gov/megafile/msa/stagser/s1200/s1249/008000/008063/tif/dsl08063-1.tif
JN STARKEY TRUE MERIDIAN MAR 1923
http://msa.maryland.gov/megafile/msa/stagser/s1200/s1249/008000/008097/tif/dsl08097-1.tif
JN STARKEY TRUE MERIDIAN NOV 1924 FIRST TYPEWRITTEN NOTES ON A PLAT IN THIS RESEARCH
http://msa.maryland.gov/megafile/msa/stagser/s1200/s1249/008100/008100/tif/dsl08100-1.tif
JN STARKEY TRUE MERIDIAN SEPT 1924
robert hill, after further review...
> here are some citations and notes. looks like en jackson, although he couldn't spell meridian, used the time meredian note many times in his plats, but used record bearings in resubdivisions. there is also one plat where he claims 'line meredian'.
>
> no other surveyor, in that area and that time span, used a 'time meridian'. was he using astronomic techniques that no one else did?
>
>
>
>
>
the more we look at plats in that area and era, the more we are inclined to think he had talked himself into calling the 'true meridian' the 'time meredian', similar to how some people call a 'right of way' a 'right away' or a 'median strip' a 'medium strip'.
does anyone else see it this way?
after further review...
> > here are some citations and notes. looks like en jackson, although he couldn't spell meridian, used the time meredian note many times in his plats, but used record bearings in resubdivisions. there is also one plat where he claims 'line meredian'.
> >
> > no other surveyor, in that area and that time span, used a 'time meridian'. was he using astronomic techniques that no one else did?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> the more we look at plats in that area and era, the more we are inclined to think he had talked himself into calling the 'true meridian' the 'time meredian', similar to how some people call a 'right of way' a 'right away' or a 'median strip' a 'medium strip'.
>
> does anyone else see it this way?
Have you done any field work?
I know the stones will be long gone,gone,gone but the right of way bearing may be based on them still.
In New Orleans, there is no such thing as median strip or whatever.
It is called the "neutral ground". You will find it described that way in some NGS descriptions thanks to local surveyors. 😉
Which is the other option here... which is to find some local old timer surveyor in that specific area to comment.
Well he did show the bearings to the minute!
robert hill, after further review...
Are the "time meridian" plats clustered geographically closer to the DC boundary?
There was a USC&GS resurvey of the DC boundary stones in the 1890's. IF they tied this to the Old Naval Observatory Meridian (the time meridian); and he had that info, and he based is datum on DC stone locations, and he knew that the Old Navel Observatory Meridian was the "Washington Time Meridian"...then it makes sense.
But that's a heaping pile of conjecture right there 😉
robert hill, after further review...
>
> But that's a heaping pile of conjecture right there 😉
No more than the supposition that some engineer had talked himself into calling the 'true meridian' the 'time meridian',
heck...
> > I was looking at the bottom of the doc. It was filed a year before it was certified.
>
> Closer to 6 months, but still a long time. Wonder if that was an election year or if the recorder job was vacant.
No, look at the written date saying "Filed June 1st, 1911" and then look at the typewritten statement above his signature that says that he certifies that he filed it June 1st, 1912. (both at the bottom of the plat.). He also references deeds from Nov. and December of 1910. I think that the "Dec. 1910" is reference to one of the deeds he is plotting on there (maybe the pob of the December deed?).
Maybe the time difference has to do with whether he was filing "post meridiem" or "ante meridiem" for the "Washington mean time meredian"....o.O 😉
heck...
> > > I was looking at the bottom of the doc. It was filed a year before it was certified.
> >
> > Closer to 6 months, but still a long time. Wonder if that was an election year or if the recorder job was vacant.
>
> No, look at the written date saying "Filed June 1st, 1911" and then look at the typewritten statement above his signature that says that he certifies that he filed it June 1st, 1912. (both at the bottom of the plat.). He also references deeds from Nov. and December of 1910. I think that the "Dec. 1910" is reference to one of the deeds he is plotting on there (maybe the pob of the December deed?).
>
> Maybe the time difference has to do with whether he was filing "post meridiem" or "ante meridiem" for the "Washington mean time meredian"....o.O 😉
Yep. Very true. The key to it may be in the wording "Filed" and "Recorded". Handwritten has "Filed" the typewritten says "Recorded". May be 2 different actions for separate reasons. But that is a WAG too.
But what is interesting is Mr. Moe Shetty above has shown the preponderance of the correct terminology of "true" meridian by actual Maryland surveyors Maddox and Starkey during the same general time period. Mr. E.N. Jackson - C.E. appears to have miss-spelled and miss-identified the proper terminology. Calling True Meridian the "Time Meredian". I rest my case. © 😉
heck...
actually, I am going with the Washington Time meridian as mentioned and referenced by Mr. Fleming.
The location is in close proximity to the bound stones of D.C that was established under the "time meridian".
another clue that I like is that the meridian is a called between the controlling stones #1 and #2 and not the assorted irons in the s/d.
I am thinking that these control stones have a relation to the other local control stones in proximity.
another wag
and I would not pay attention to the misspelling of meridian having anything to do with the survey work.
We all know civil engineers who can spell that can't survey ..right?
