Recently, I saw the term "survey engineers" used and I have to admit that seeing the term brought about negative feelings on some visceral level, although I'm not sure why? What do you think about land surveyors being called "survey engineers"?
> Recently, I saw the term "survey engineers" used and I have to admit that seeing the term brought about negative feelings on some visceral level, although I'm not sure why? What do you think about land surveyors being called "survey engineers"?
Recently? I bet you see it on Linkedin every time you log in. Why try to define it narrowly from a myopic American perspective. It looks like the rest of the World sees it differently and so do I.
If you don't do boundary work why define yourself as such. Here is the definition in case you're not aware of it.
Engineering Surveying
Engineering Surveying is defined as those activities involved in the practice and application of surveying principles for the location, design, construction and maintenance and operation of engineered projects.
Land surveyor is a great term for one who surveys land boundaries and perhaps small-scale topography. (Topographer, though fallen out of use, is a great term for one who surveys topography at a larger scale.)
Hydrographer is a great term for one who surveys the beds, currents, tides, etc. of water bodies.
Engineering Surveyor is a great term for one who performs surveys directly related to the planning, design, and construction of engineering projects. "Survey engineer" seems to be a poorly constructed term that tries to follow the syntax of engineering disciplines: civil, mechanical, mining, petroleum engineer. But I think that surveying is distinct from engineering in many ways, so the title of "Surveyor" should remain, with "Engineering" being a very appropriate modifier.
Being educated in Russia, my degree says: "Engineer / Specialty: Applied Geodesy". I think this comes out of Europe where surveyors and cadastral surveyor aren't distinguished as strongly as in N. America and where surveying is one of the branches of engineering...
I are one
First came the P.E., then the L.S.
Not what you meant?
I think of what you are trying to describe as construction surveying without considering boundaries. In many States no license is required and the work may be under the supervision (limited as it may be) of a licensed engineer.
Surveying being defined as one of the branches of engineering seems very limiting to me.
I like the definition Ralph posted above. The term Surveying Engineering makes sense to me in that context. It can also make sense in geodesy if one is designing a control network. It seems to come down to whether the bulk of the practice is making measurements and applying the principles of mathematics, including specified constraints that are in turn derived through mathematics.
I do not agree that large scale topo is not within the practice of land surveying. gathering and interpreting the data to properly depict topography is an art. Although with scanning and the resultant point clouds, the art element would seem to be fading quickly from topo.
Although measurement and math are important aspects of boundary surveying, the defining elements or roles are investigation and the application of law. Those are definitely not engineering.
>I have to admit that seeing the term brought about negative feelings on some visceral level, although I'm not sure why?
And why do you think you feel this way? Did an engineer touch you in a bad place?
Seriously though, every day it seems there is a post along the lines of:
Engineers are idiots
Architects are idiots
Real Estate Agents are idiots
Contractors are idiots
Homeowners are idiots
...Ad infinitum
Yet in all these there is one common denominator
Love it! I have to admit that I told a little white lie as bait to see the reaction. What's in a name....Now, how about we talk about geomatics!
I are one
You can see my post below to see that I was only trying to start a conversation. For over 30 years I've listened to surveyors complain about engineers and I can tell you I've never had a problem with even one engineer and always felt they treated me with respect and professionalism.
:hi5:
Lots of good dialogue but...
The Kings just dealt the death blow..... #throatpunch. # gostarrrrrrrrrrrs
I'm no engineer, I work for a living!
Just joking! I was reminded of statements told to us in Army basic training when someone accidentally said sir to a drill Sargent. "Don't call me sir! I work for a living!:-P
Interesting question. The first place surveying I worked at was primarily an engineering firm and us lowly surveyors were their annoyance. That's what it seemed like to me anyhow. Then one day one of them decides they need a traffic study and rented all this counting equipment that someone had to figure out and how to do. That turned out being me. I figured that out and was able to analyze the data every which way from Sunday. That's when they figured out my mathematics background was serious and wasn't just some out of work boy. (which I pretty much was at the time)
I really didn't have a problem with engineers. My Uncle is one and on occasion has to do little surveying.
I especially got a kick when one of them had to come into field with us on one of their projects. Nothing like eye-balls on the ground. One feller starts arguing with me about math one time and I knew was right and he wrong. He had to get out the calculator to try to prove me wrong and dam! he was wrong!! My party chief was loving every second of that. After all was said and both the engineer and my PC look at me "what are you doing here?". Hey, I had nothing else better to do at the time.
Got a whole bunch more respect after that. Maybe they should have checked the stable to see what race-horse they had for a wimpy $10 an hour. I did like the company and the folks and would work for them again.
Honestly it really irritates me, right along with the continuous argument with grading contractors who go and purchase survey grade equipment, without having a PLS, RPLS, etc. and defining it as "Laying Out" and not what it truly is "Construction Staking" or "Construction Surveying"...
Just my 2 cents...
I'm sure some of the members of the International Union of Operating Engineers don't mind a bit:
"IUOE Local 3, based in Alameda, California, is the largest building and construction trades local in the U.S., with jurisdiction covering four states: California, Nevada, Hawaii and Utah. Most of Local 3's 42,600 members work as heavy equipment operators, and construction workers, but the local also represents public employees, such as maintenance workers and peace officers, Technical Engineers, Surveyors and Construction Inspectors as well as Building Inspectors."
I've been called a lot worse. A name, a name. What's in a name? A rose by any other name would..oh, forget it...
How about Geomatic Engineer?
A horse by a different color...
If it enables me to stamp septic, sewer, drainage and other minor civil projects, you can call me Susan for all I care.
> Surveying being defined as one of the branches of engineering seems very limiting to me.
I would have to disagree that being branch of engineering is limiting. It is only as limiting as you make it. I guess I don't feel like my skill set have be fit within any one term or definition.
100
>
> Seriously though, every day it seems there is a post along the lines of:
>
> Engineers are idiots
> Architects are idiots
> Real Estate Agents are idiots
> Contractors are idiots
> Homeowners are idiots
> ...Ad infinitum
>
> Yet in all these there is one common denominator
>
Yes I get that vibe also, everyone is an idiot save for the guy doing the $90 Drive By; He's actually the competition.
BS in Civil Engineering. I became a PLS before I became a PE. In my work, I did boundary work first, and topographical work after, and then did constriction staking related to engineering design. Survey Engineering and Engineering Surveying.