What books are a must read for land surveyors?

> > At least it won't lie to you and tend to lead you in the wrong direction like Brown's........
> Stick with the editions written by Brown, ie/ 3rd edition or earlier.

:good:

My opinion...

Yea I agree. Stick with the early edition of Brown's books for a foundation of knowledge.
Then after that you can explore early editions Skelton and Clark.

Of course, try to seek books written specifically for the state of your practice and preferably by someone who practices in that state...

Hijack - Gavin

Nausea by J P Sartre..
nuff said..B-)

Lillian Hellman sidetrack

In the late Seventies, I went to see Lillian Hellman give a talk at Tulane. She was vey uncomfortable and appeared to be in a funk doing the talk and showing her age. She did talk of her time with Hammett and early her early writing period. I was hoping that she would talk more of her childhood in New Orleans.
She was an elegant woman who chain smoked and her voice showed the result of her smoking. Toward the end of her talk, she had some tissues on the lectern and tucked in her sleeve and she accidently set them ablaze with her cig and did not notice. Panic ensued until someone came to her aid.

I think it is important to read the books that are most specific to your area of the country. Here in NH it seems to be the Brown, Robillard and Wilson books. Back when I was studying to get my license, the State of New Hampshire recommended "Evidence and Procedures" and "Brown's Boundary Control and Legal Principals". Both books have very useful information for my area of work.

Hijack - Robert and Fleming

Nietzsche Family Circus

Great thread. I thought I would comment on some of the posts. I have copied all of these to a list of books to look out for.

I have read a lot of these, and still want to get some including “The Pincushion Effect”, “A. Lincoln’s Of Compass and Chain”, Tiny Tillotson’s book, Longitude, and I am interested in looking up the Classics by Dashiel Hammett, and by George Simenon.

I have looked for "A. Lincoln's of Compas and Chain" and Tiny Tillotson's book, and haven't found a copy I could afford.

Nate, I would never reference the Bible for historic accuracy or for law so much as I would for spiritual development. I’m sorry, but I don’t see it as a book either meant for the former nor in the current language of laws and science. That is not to disparage the Bible in the least.
And by the way, “metes” would be the term for measurements and "meets" would be more related to the word “bounds”. I think you meant “metes and bounds”

Brian, I have to disagree about “leading you in the wrong direction. The survey student really needs to read books by Mr. Robillard whether you agree with him or not. You can’t forget that he has testified in court, has practiced both as an attorney and as a land surveyor, and his opinion won’t be ignored. He is an expert. Even if you are going to call everything he says “hogwash”, if you are going to retrace other surveyors or argue with him in court you really need to understand his point of view and his arguments.

KJac, consider that Robillard is respected by both courts and many land surveyors. I highly advise you read him just as readily as you read authors like Jeff Lucas.

I really like “Writing Legal Descriptions” by Gurdon Wattles, Survey Measurements and Their Analysis, “The Legal Elements of Boundaries and Adjacent Properties”. And “Measuring America”.

recap

here is a list I compiled so far if anyone wants to copy-and-paste it.

“The Surveying Handbook” by Russell C. Brinker & Roy Minnick
MAPSCO
"The Pincushion Effect" by Jeff Lucas
"Compass Land Surveying" by F. Henry Sipe
"Writing Legal Descriptions" by Gurdon H. Wattles
"Boundaries and Landmarks" by A.C. Mulford
Browns Boundary Control and Legal Principles
(third edition or earlier)
“The Legal Elements of Boundaries and Adjacent Properties” by Ray Hamilton Skelton
“Surveyors of the Empire” by UMO Professor Stephen J. Hornsby
“The Alantic Neptune” book of Maps
“The Measure of All Things” by Ken Alder
“Development of Gravity Pendulums in the 19th Century” and “Gravity’s Increasing Gravitas”
“Measuring America” by Andro Linklater
“The Fabric of America” by Linklater
“The Mapmaker’s Wife” by Robert Whitaker
“The Island of Lost Maps” by Miles Harvey
“Outliers” and “David and Goliath” by Malcolm Gladwell
“A Business Management Handbook For Land Surveyors” by Dan Beardslee ISBN-10 0980059631
“A Pocket Guide to Business for Engineers and Land Surveyors” by H. Edmund Bergeron
“Surveying Measurements and Their Analysis” by R.B. Buckner ISBN-10: 0910845115 & ISBN-13: 978-0910845113
“Initial Points of the Public Lands Survey System” by C. Albert White
“A History of the Rectangular Survey System” by White
“A. Lincoln with Compass and Chain” by Adin Baber
“They Left Their Mark: A Biography of William Austin Burt” by John S. Burt
“Surveyors and Statesmen: Land Measuring in Colonial Virginia” by Sarah S. Hughes
“Legal Principles of Property Boundary Location on the Ground in the Public Land Survey States” by Ira M. "Tiny" Tillotson
“Evidence and Procedures for Boundary Location” by Brown and Robillard
M.E. Spry
“Decisions” by Ken Gold
“Forensic Procedures for Boundary and Title Investigation” by Donald A. Wilson ISBN: 978-0-470-11369-1
“Interpreting Land Records” by Donald A. Wilson ISBN: 978-0-471-71543-6
Paper: “The Judicial Function of Surveyors” by Thomas M. Cooley (Chief Justice, Supreme Court of Michigan, 1864 to 1885)
The Boundary Hunters: Surveying the 141st Meridian and the Alaska Panhandle
“Longitude” by Dava Sobel
“Latitude” by Stephen Pumfrey
“The Castle” by Franz Kafka
“Compass” by Allen Gurney
“Undaunted Courage” by Stephen Ambrose
Any of the detective Novels by Hammet or Chandler
The “Inspector Maigret” series by George Simeonon
“The Bible” by God
“Moby Dick” by Herman Melville
“Nausea” by J.P. Sartre
All of W.H. Auden’s syllabus…(for a real list of books 😉 )

> Brian, I have to disagree about “leading you in the wrong direction. The survey student really needs to read books by Mr. Robillard whether you agree with him or not. You can’t forget that he has testified in court, has practiced both as an attorney and as a land surveyor, and his opinion won’t be ignored. He is an expert. Even if you are going to call everything he says “hogwash”, if you are going to retrace other surveyors or argue with him in court you really need to understand his point of view and his arguments.
>

Tom, I never said or implied that I would call everything he says "hogwash". I have gained a bunch of knowledge from his books, but I have also learned not to believe everything in print. It seems a growing percentage of what is in his books is nothing but merely his "opinion" and not supported by any recognized authority or case law, but seems to be only supported by "because I said so."

What I have learned to do, and advise others to do, is not take everything as gospel (not only Brown's, but all sources of surveying information), and research the cited authorities.

I have recently purchased the 7th edition of Boundary Control and am very disappointed by the amount of conjecture and misleading information presented as "facts". Yes the courts will listen to him, but I'm sure they will take settled law as authoritative especially when in conflict with his unsupported "opinions".

I try to understand what he is saying, but sometimes it takes some really twisted mental gymnastics to even get in the right zipcode:

"The boundary line to be identified by the surveyor in conducting his or her retracement may be the deed line, a possession line, or a claim of ownership line."

"... yet no surveyor has the authority to identify and locate property boundaries, and few states define one of the attributes of surveying as "locating property boundaries." Without judicial authority, no surveyor has authority to locate or identify property boundaries."

I can't believe...

that nobody mentioned:

Boundaries and Adjacent Properties, Ray Hamilton Skelton, 1930.

Or maybe I just missed it...
Loyal

> What I have learned to do, and advise others to do, is not take everything as gospel....

With the possible exception of Nate's suggestion 😉

METES

.

I can't believe...

It was mentioned and I put it in my list, but they referred to it only as "Skelton's" book. About 8th on my list. They said "earlier editions of Skelton's" and I meant to point out that there only two editions and the second edition seems to be more rare than the first.

I can't believe...

Senior Moment...

:'(

>
> I have looked for "A. Lincoln's of Compas and Chain" and Tiny Tillotson's book, and haven't found a copy I could afford.
>
>

[sarcasm]crack that wallet open a little wider, ya tight wad!!![/sarcasm]:-D

@norman-oklahoma I just purchsed Brown's 3rd edition, was that a bad choice? Could not find 1st or second editions.