I had a call from a prominent local medical doctor yesterday morning. He was inquiring about old surveying equipment. He said he’d been looking on ebay and had found some transits for $150 or so but wanted to know if I had an old transit that I’d sell. I told him the only transit I had was the one that my Dad trained me on when I was 13. By this time I was curious and asked what his interest was in older surveying equipment. He said he had a book that he could use to learn how to operate a transit and figured he’d buy one so he could re-set a missing corner on his property. I almost fell in the floor! That cheapskate!
Here’s the weird part. I stopped by a friend’s house after work. His brother in law was there and asked if I’d be interested in an old surveyor’s “scope”. The neighbor had one for sale. So I went and looked at it. It’s a K & E Paragon in mint condition with the pristine box and accessories. It’s not an old one by any means though. I assume that the last two digits of the serial number represent the date of manufacture. Someone correct me if I’m wrong. If so, it was manufactured in 1988. I have never seen a transit with an optical plummet, but this one has one. He’s asking $200 for it. I figure I’ll give the guy’s number to the good doctor. I might get a good job settling a dispute!
How do I post a picture on here? I took one of the transit if anyone's interested.
Me. "What's the difference?"
T.C. Carroll "It's the difference between right and wrong!"
Hi Stacy... *waves*
To post a photo, go over to the little boxes there next to where you type this message. (the ones that say BOLD, italic, etc...) Boxes ---------->
Click on the one that says "upload". A little pop up will pop up. Click browse to find your photo on your PC. Then click "upload". After it shows you a little thumbnail of your photo, click on that photo and it inserts it into here. Should work then.
If you have any problems with it just let me know. 🙂
Here is my attempt at posting a picture. There isn't a scuff mark or scratch on the box, transit or even the plumb bob. The compass needle won't release though.
Me. "What's the difference?"
T.C. Carroll "It's the difference between right and wrong!"
DIBS!
The Paragon series (Paragon was the "brand name" of an entire line of surveying and drafting equipment) was not manufactured after 1982 or so, and I don't think the serial numbers were tied to the date in that way.
Sometimes the year of manufacture was the first two digits, as in 74-0001. Other time, the SN was merely a four or six digit number, having no relation to the date of manufacture. There were also many models, manufactured in different cities, including Hoboken, Detroit and Los Angeles. I believe the later instruments (post 1960?) were made in Kennebunk, Me and Morristown, NJ.
I used a K&E with an optical plummet back in the early 80s.
Yours looks older.
Wow, really nice gun. I learned on a K & E Paragon with no OP many years ago, it was a beautiful instrument.
I would guess that this instrument was near the end of transits and K & E. We had one donated to our convention auction a few years back also with a OP, and the guy even had the original sales receipt. I bid on the gun thinking I should own my own piece of survey history. We got to about $250, which I thought was still really cheap, when I realized that it would just sit in my closet with my two T1 theodolites and collect dust. I let the other guy bidding, a dealer have the instrument. I don't own a transit but I do remember turning thousands of angles with a 1' Gurley, I was so happy when the boss bought a theodolite and I could ditch my magnifier, now I need a magnifier to read old deeds.
We have come a long way in one generation.
Tom Wilson
That is a very nice transit.
#1: Don't make that phone call... do you really want the good Doc setting his own corner? I had about the same situation here... walked in to the local Doc's office and knew something was afoot when I saw 3 engineering textbooks on the bottom of his bookshelf... What a headache this guy was.
#2: Nice transit. I'm a little more attached to Dad's 20" Gurley, but that's a personal thing. I have it in my office on display. 
I also have this in my office on display.
Carl
oo, oo I got a question.....
re: He said he had a book that he could use to learn how to operate a transit and figured he’d buy one so he could re-set a missing corner on his property.
Can a land owner legally stake his own property lines? If so, does his "stob" monument hold? I would think it doesn't if it crosses into the neighbor's property. (assuming the neighbor doesn't sign anything and isn't put on public notice as to where that stob was set) If it doesn't cross into the neighbor's property, does it create a gap between properties? That is to say, can he limit his ownership to where he sets his mark?
Whether he can or cannot legally stake his own property line, what if you come along and find his "stob" 5 or 10 feet away from where you think the corner goes, and you have no knowledge of who set the mark or where it came from, are you going to accept the existing mark? What if the "stob" is only a foot away from where you think the corner should go?
oo, oo I got an answer....
Well adamsurveyor, you have some very good questions! And of course the main answer is,....it depends!
Remember my statements about being proud of bringing to court an 80 year old land owner who has personal knowledge of the boundary and I would gladly put him up against the finest measuring machines out there.
Obviously Kent, would not agree to that as he only believes in bony fried rice, but if you are serious about bona fide rights, then other evidence than original monuments have to be looked at and a land surveyor's judgement given.
I am not sure about some unknown "stob" being accepted as the corner or not, but if there is testimony about it....then it had better be considered.
One fact of life in the land surveying world would have to be that there are many existing boundary lines that can be, have been or should be along landowner occupation lines.
Now, does that constitute establishing boundaries by the landowner?
Land surveyors can answer that.
Keith
WOW!!!! According to that, the transit in question was made in 1927! I'm not sure I believe that.
Me. "What's the difference?"
T.C. Carroll "It's the difference between right and wrong!"
oo, oo I have no answer....
It depends is right. CA Cadasatral Chief Lance Bishop gave a good presentation on bona fide rights from the BLM perspective a few months ago at a CLSA chapter meeting. What I got from his talk was that the BLM will accept a corner set by the landowners if it was set with a good faith attempt to set it properly and it has been accepted and relied upon. There's definitely a sliding scale to that "good faith attempt" idea and there are no rules that will fit every situation.
I won't even go into whether BLM procedures are "irrelevant" to the private surveyor. In some ways, surveys are surveys, whether the government or private surveyors do them.
oo, oo I have no answer....
It is called "land surveyor judgement"!
oo, oo I have no answer....
Obviously "expert measurers" will not consider at all, any "stob" placed by a land owner.
Keith
It looks newer than that to me.
In the right hands instruments clean up real good.
Could be a good survey thread!
and maybe even talk about those surveyors who can't accept the fact that sometimes junior corners do bend senior lines!!
Or else we could throw out all mention of bona fide rights and instead only accept original corner monuments and nothing else?
Could be ya know.
Keith
Better check that number again.... I have a black one from 1954, no OP....
serial # 131017