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W.C. vs R.M.

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MightyMoe
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We try to do these as little as possible, getting good battery operated drills has made them less and less necessary. However, a boundary in a creek, a metal fence post or tree occupying the corner and you have to do something.

I try to always set a witness corner instead of an R.M. and with that the procedure is to stencil the distance and an arrow along with the letters WC reading at the "top" of the cap.

If a W.C. isn't practical and a reference monument is more useful then the same procedure with RM at the top, the distance and a bearing added to the nearest minute. Usually there are two of these, we were discussing a rather nasty one where the fencer took out the monument, set his post and shoved the cap back into the concrete, now it's about .5' from the corner. How do most of you handle these corners?


 
Posted : June 22, 2017 7:15 am
jhframe
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MightyMoe, post: 433645, member: 700 wrote: the fencer took out the monument, set his post and shoved the cap back into the concrete, now it's about .5' from the corner. How do most of you handle these corners?

I'd deface the cap, crossing out all the info. Maybe even stamp "NO GOOD" if there's room.


 
Posted : June 22, 2017 7:30 am
thebionicman
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Take out the cap and patch with polycrete.


 
Posted : June 22, 2017 8:13 am
MightyMoe
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Jim Frame, post: 433646, member: 10 wrote: I'd deface the cap, crossing out all the info. Maybe even stamp "NO GOOD" if there's room.

Yeah it's not the best situation, there is no way to set a cap on the corner, and not really a spot for a WC along the line between the two owners, there is also no way to remove the pin since it's in the concrete. It's a 3" cap so it's going to get stamped as a RM, bearing, distance and arrow to the corner.


 
Posted : June 22, 2017 8:20 am
thebionicman
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MightyMoe, post: 433653, member: 700 wrote: Yeah it's not the best situation, there is no way to set a cap on the corner, and not really a spot for a WC along the line between the two owners, there is also no way to remove the pin since it's in the concrete. It's a 3" cap so it's going to get stamped as a RM, bearing, distance and arrow to the corner.

Since its a big cap you could use 1/8 inch letters to memorialize your opinion of the fence guy...


 
Posted : June 22, 2017 8:29 am

dave-karoly
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I've seen Foresters flag right to the cap with the GIANT --> on it so set it as close as you can. BLM set that one 25 links away and another just like it the other direction. My co-worker had an argument with the Forester, that's not the corner (a pipe buried in the edge of a gravel road). That's not the corner, but it's a big beautiful cap of course it's the corner, LOOK...AT...THE...ARROW!!! it's not the corner, but it's a big beautiful cap, etc.


 
Posted : June 22, 2017 8:49 am
FL/GA PLS
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MightyMoe, post: 433645, member: 700 wrote: the fencer took out the monument, set his post and shoved the cap back into the concrete, now it's about .5' from the corner

Is it your cap? If so destroy it and drill a hole for a PK where it's supposed to be or set a witness corner on line if possible, if it's not yours leave it alone and notify whomever set it that it has been disturbed.
😎


 
Posted : June 22, 2017 8:52 am
MightyMoe
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FL/GA PLS., post: 433659, member: 379 wrote: Is it your cap? If so destroy it and drill a hole for a PK where it's supposed to be or set a witness corner on line if possible, if it's not yours leave it alone and notify whomever set it that it has been disturbed.
😎

if the post wasn't on the corner I would set a cap there, I won't put one on top of it or along the side of it like I've seen now and then;)


 
Posted : June 22, 2017 10:27 am
eapls2708
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MightyMoe, post: 433645, member: 700 wrote: .... How do most of you handle these corners?

I think the way you described in your posts is a very good way to handle such situations generally, and this particular situation specifically. If the surveyor who set the cap is still around, touch base with him first to let him know what you've found and the marks you plan to add to his cap to address the situation. If that surveyor is no longer around, just do it with no worry, and document.


 
Posted : June 22, 2017 10:47 am
aliquot
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Carefull with those terms, the way you are using the terms W.C. and R.M. is the way I used to understand them, but in the BLM world, and for surveyors referencing the manual, both methods you discuss are W.C.s An R.M. would only be set when there is actually something set at the true corner, but memorials are desired. An R.M. by BLM definition functions just like a bearing tree, different than an offline W.C.


 
Posted : June 22, 2017 11:00 am

MightyMoe
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aliquot, post: 433670, member: 2486 wrote: Carefull with those terms, the way you are using the terms W.C. and R.M. is the way I used to understand them, but in the BLM world, and for surveyors referencing the manual, both methods you discuss are W.C.s An R.M. would only be set when there is actually something set at the true corner, but memorials are desired. An R.M. by BLM definition functions just like a bearing tree, different than an offline W.C.

I know what you mean, however I think we can consider a metal post as what is being referenced.


 
Posted : June 22, 2017 11:46 am
MightyMoe
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eapls2708, post: 433669, member: 589 wrote: I think the way you described in your posts is a very good way to handle such situations generally, and this particular situation specifically. If the surveyor who set the cap is still around, touch base with him first to let him know what you've found and the marks you plan to add to his cap to address the situation. If that surveyor is no longer around, just do it with no worry, and document.

The cap is an old one from our office


 
Posted : June 22, 2017 11:46 am
Tom Adams
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aliquot, post: 433670, member: 2486 wrote: Carefull with those terms, the way you are using the terms W.C. and R.M. is the way I used to understand them, but in the BLM world, and for surveyors referencing the manual, both methods you discuss are W.C.s An R.M. would only be set when there is actually something set at the true corner, but memorials are desired. An R.M. by BLM definition functions just like a bearing tree, different than an offline W.C.

I first heard of "offline" Witness Corners from a BLM course I took. I haven't looked it up, but it seems like the "Manual" only talks about Witness Corners being on line. If that's correct it kind of sends an ambiguous message to us common surveyors when we are trying to do things "by the manual". (I probably should have pulled out my Manual of Instructions before typing this.)

edit: The Manual does not specifically define an offline witness corner, but it does not state that the WC must be set on line. The latest manual says "Establishing a witness corner upon one of the lines leading to the corner is acceptable..." certainly implying you may need to set it off line if that's a better, more solid location for it.


 
Posted : June 22, 2017 11:54 am
aliquot
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Tom Adams, post: 433684, member: 7285 wrote: I first heard of "offline" Witness Corners from a BLM course I took. I haven't looked it up, but it seems like the "Manual" only talks about Witness Corners being on line. If that's correct it kind of sends an ambiguous message to us common surveyors when we are trying to do things "by the manual". (I probably should have pulled out my Manual of Instructions before typing this.)

edit: The Manual does not specifically define an offline witness corner, but it does not state that the WC must be set on line. The latest manual says "Establishing a witness corner upon one of the lines leading to the corner is acceptable..." certainly implying you may need to set it off line if that's a better, more solid location for it.

Yes, some BLM offices actualy have had policies prohibiting online witness corners.


 
Posted : June 22, 2017 3:53 pm