Unlicensed Practice

Unless he has actually been surveying OR recently updated his web site, I don't know if there is a violation, clearly sates SUPPORT SERVICES and some activities MAY need to be done under a PLS which he isn't.

I think we would have to know more about the complaint OR if he has changed his practices / advertising since the complaint was filed to know if there was a violation.

In some states, if it isn't boundary, it isn't regulated too, looks like he works a number of states?

SHG

This type of “service” is offered in Alaska by several non-licensed surveyors, mostly for construction companies. I think it is “legal” if it is limited to private work, but as soon as it’s offered for publicly funded construction then it’s crossing the line. The problem is if you let it happen in the private sector then the public side – state county city etc. feels it is acceptable. I have seen many hundreds of thousands spent on mistakes that I believe would not have occurred if a qualified licensed surveyor would have been in charge. Educating all the public officials about this is not being done by our associations and the boards do absolutely nothing unless a surveyor files a complaint. That is akin to a police officer not stopping a burglar he sees running from a home unless the homeowner is there to complain. I believe our profession is on its way out.

I believe the advertising alone would be considered a violation here in Florida. But as to what could / would be done about it... well...:-/

I believe that what he is doing would be illegal in Tennessee.

When Walmart finds out he is listing them as a client and talking about their land interests on the internet they will dispatch a hit man or team of hit men (people) to his trailer.

That website/company would definitely be a no-go in AK. I have never seen that blatant of an advertisement for un-licensed survey practice anywhere.
If you know un-licensed companies/contractors operating like this here, please let me know. I won't hesitate to contact the board and the State business licensing board.

I realize large construction companies operate in this state with their own un-licensed survey staking staff. And I know of licensed individuals that are looking for over-flow contracting work, but I've never seen an un-licensed survey contractor advertise.

This guy most be a miracle worker. According to his resume, he was a CAD operator and chainman from 2008 to 2009 in Alaska and North Dakota at the same time!

> That website/company would definitely be a no-go in AK. I have never seen that blatant of an advertisement for un-licensed survey practice anywhere.
> If you know un-licensed companies/contractors operating like this here, please let me know. I won't hesitate to contact the board and the State business licensing board.
>

The website clearly says Support Services for Licensed Surveyors, Engineers etc., he knows he is not licensed and he never claims to be one, so where is the illegal in that?

His credentials show he is an LSIT and has some background in engineering, as long as the survey support services he is doing is within the bounds of the law (some states don't regulate surveys unless it is a Boundary Survey - as mentioned by a PLS gentleman) I don't see anything wrong in what he does. Like most of us, the guy also wants to earn a living.

Looking at the website, he has worked in Alaska several times, I just talked with an unlicensed surveyor staking on a construction project here in Alaska and I asked him how he got away with being the surveyor on the project when he wasn’t licensed. He told me that he had a good relationship with “ name omitted” a large construction staking surveying company and that for $5000 they would be the licensed signer on the project and he did all the work directly for the contractor. This is standard practice for a bunch of the remote construction here in Alaska. I see it because I also serve remote construction. I know of several people making a living doing this in Alaska.

Jef221 – from your post - I am a Structural Engineer by profession but is also very much interested in land surveying, having had the satisfaction of working as a surveyor early in my career.
I suspect that if you were licensed you would have a different opinion of non-licensed people acting like they are licensed. I know that after I went through all the work, expense, and great responsibility to get licensed my opinion changed.

It is not lawful to offer your services as a surveyor to anyone in California. This would be strictly an employer- employee relationship in order not to run afoul of the statutes.

Additionally, this guy is quite disingenuous.

I know at least one of his "references" that knew nothing about being used as such. In fact, the "reference" just pointed out to me that he had used this character's CAD services a few years ago, once, and "...it did not go well..."

'Nuff said?

"Land Surveyor" is a reserved title in California.

It is unlawful to use it without being duly licensed.

The use of the reserved title "Land Surveyors" is illegal in many jurisdictions just by itself.

> I suspect that if you were licensed you would have a different opinion of non-licensed people acting like they are licensed. I know that after I went through all the work, expense, and great responsibility to get licensed my opinion changed.

I am a licensed civil engineer and structural engineer, akpls, I too, have undergone the hard work, expenses and responsibility you are talking about but I guess I wouldn't have a different opinion unless I'm an insecure professional.

I do not encourage non-licensed practice, but I also keep in mind that these are real people who are trying to make a living using his knowledge and skills. As long as what he does is legal, technically correct and he doesn't affect other people, then who am I to stop him?

I am actually more concerned on wrong and erroneous practice (either by a licensed professional or otherwise), these are the threats that real professionals worth their salt should be looking into.

:good: :good: :good:

> Looking at the website, he has worked in Alaska several times, I just talked with an unlicensed surveyor staking on a construction project here in Alaska and I asked him how he got away with being the surveyor on the project when he wasn’t licensed.

Sounds to me the unprofessional guy on this one is you, akpls. Assuming that the unlicensed surveyor did not misrepresent himself as a licensed surveyor to the client, and assuming further that what he is doing is technically correct, then by all means you don't have any business asking him why he got the job when he is not a licensed surveyor. It's a personally insulting question, to say the least.

> He told me that he had a good relationship with “ name omitted” a large construction staking surveying company and that for $5000 they would be the licensed signer on the project and he did all the work directly for the contractor. This is standard practice for a bunch of the remote construction here in Alaska. I see it because I also serve remote construction. I know of several people making a living doing this in Alaska.

Bingo!!! this happens all the time, akpls. Not only in Alaska, it's everywhere else. Not only in Surveying, it's practically on all technical disciplines. It's called trust. The licensed surveying company believes and trust in the technical capacity of the unlicensed surveyor that they are willing to put their hard earned reputation on line.

of course in return for a $5000 fee, which is if it is in my case, quite low 😉

Cheers!

In Arizona:

27. "Land surveying practice" means the performance of one or more of the following professional services:
(a) Measurement of land to determine the position of any monument or reference point which marks a property line, boundary or corner for the purpose of determining the area or description of the land.
(b) Location, relocation, establishment, reestablishment, setting, resetting or replacing of corner monuments or reference points which identify land boundaries, rights?of?way or easements.
(c) Platting or plotting of lands for the purpose of subdividing.
(d) Measurement by angles, distances and elevations of natural or artificial features in the air, on the surface and immediate subsurface of the earth, within underground workings and on the surface or within bodies of water for the purpose of determining or establishing their location, size, shape, topography, grades, contours or water surface and depths, and the preparation and perpetuation of field note records and maps depicting these features.
(e) Setting, resetting or replacing of points to guide the location of new construction.
28. "Land surveyor" means a person who by reason of knowledge of the mathematical and physical sciences, principles of land surveying and evidence gathering acquired by professional education or practical experience, or both is qualified to practice land surveying as attested by registration as a land surveyor.A person employed on a full?time basis as a land surveyor by an employer engaged in the business of developing, mining or treating ores or other minerals shall not be deemed to be engaged in land surveying practice for purposes of this chapter if the person engages in land surveying practice exclusively for and as an employee of such employer and does not represent that the person is available and is not represented as being available to perform any land surveying services for persons other than the person's employer.
29. "Land surveyor?in?training" means a candidate for registration as a professional land surveyor who is a graduate of a school and curriculum approved by the board, or who has four years or more of education or experience, or both, in land surveying work which meets standards specified by the board in its rules. In addition, the candidate shall have passed the land surveyor?in?training examination

32-145. Violations; classification
Any person who commits any of the following acts is guilty of a class 2 misdemeanor:
1. Practices, offers to practice or by any implication holds himself out as qualified to practice any board regulated profession or occupation if the person is not registered or certified as provided by this chapter.2. Advertises or displays any card, sign or other device that may indicate to the public that the person is certified or registered or is qualified to practice any board regulated profession or occupation if the person is not certified or registered as provided by this chapter.
3. Uses "certified", "professional certified", "professional", "PE", "registered", "registered professional" or "professional registered" in conjunction with any board regulated profession or occupation if the person is not certified or registered as provided by this chapter.
4. Uses a certification or certificate of registration of another, or uses an expired or revoked certification or certificate of registration.
5. Presents false evidence to the board with the intent to obtain a certification or a certificate of registration.
6. Otherwise violates any provision of this chapter.

I do not agree with what he is doing. I worked and studied very hard to have a recognized license that enables me to practice what I like to do and to provide for my family. I empathize with anyone who is trying to make it, but I believe there are no exceptions here, no free lunch...On a different note it looks like he's got got some good gear though, wonder how he gets parts for his truck?

jef221

Just an observation, but it seems that from your responses you are the insecure one, I mean really, to call someone unprofessional with knowing so little about the situation is a bit extreme.
Just to clarify - you are not a licensed professional land surveyor - correct?

> Just an observation, but it seems that from your responses you are the insecure one, I mean really, to call someone unprofessional with knowing so little about the situation is a bit extreme.

It's not what I meant akpls, and I based my reply only on the limited information you gave, im sorry if in your opinion I went a bit extreme.
But, isn't that the same message you said on your first reply to me?

> Just to clarify - you are not a licensed professional land surveyor - correct?

A big YES. I'm not a PLS, and I never claim as one.

Seems like a dumb move for an LSIT who invested in a college surveying degree. Depending on the BORs ruling, he may have blown his chances of ever getting a license.