Trimble Target ID

zammo, post: 446794, member: 9087 wrote: Does the jigger switch automatically from active to passive on the fly?

There is an option to enable Active tracking and to select the Target ID on the screen where you select the prism offset and target height.

You can use the active target in passive mode, but not vice-versa.

As I understand it, each LED is simply flashing a binary pattern, corresponding with the ID selected.

It works really well, especially on sites with lots of reflective vests etc.

This is the clip on target ID.

Using the clip on target ID you will need to either
1) keep the target ID facing the instrument (not practical)
2) use the target ID for search only (this is a setting so it switches to active when searching). You still have the problem with poor passive tracking. I gave up on mine after a while. Working on railway sites where everyone has to wear several metres of reflective strip around arms legs etc; caused loss of lock every time someone walked in between the instrument and prism. Very frustrating.

My advice is to get the MT1000 or AT360. The active target is a false economy if you are already suffering loss of lock issues.

Thanks fellas,
You've confirmed what I thought. I was always a bit suss on these units, as not having a full 360 degree LED setup effectively makes it useful only when re-aquiring lock, it's almost as if Trimble intended them to be used with standard prisms.

Thanks for your help.

Just to chime in - the MT1000 is awesome, that's what you need. The S6 performs much better with it than with a passive 360.

I'll agree with the first post. We have the same instrument Trimble S6 with the 360 ID prism (Trimble mulit-track target prism MT1000). It's expensive and bulky but we learned to like it. The thing didn't work too well on passive. I'd put the chainman behind the gun with it to dial me up. Actually our old Focus 10 with a powered pole and 360?ø worked way better than the S6 before we all realized that we didn't have the target id set. It's really simple. If using Surveypro, it's a simple as going into the 'manage fs smart targets', which is found by the HR, or in instrument setting. There you have a checkbox to enable the id and also to assign it. On the prism, you just dial it up. In ACCESS, I'll have to ask - as I only used that program for a few months when we first got it. But I'll agree with everyone, the passive mode isn't very good at tracking. And you have to be very careful. I had a Focus 30 in passive mode lock onto a truck side mirror while I was surveying the heck out of this hugh parking lot. Until I looked at my numbers (Sd) it was showing something like 60' when I was over 200' away. Had to go back and figure out when that all started to get the shots. Active is the way to go.

I found that the S6 didn't work nearly as well with Survey pro as it did with Access; maybe in later versions of SP they cleaned it up. When I was in sales I only sold Access, but I had one potential client who wanted an S6 with SP; when I went to do the demo I discovered, to my consternation, that some of the search functionality - like Snap to Target - didn't work right. It made the gun show poorly.

I never found the passive tracking to be any worse than any other passive tracking system per se... with the MT1000 it certainly tracks much better when the prism is active. I think the S6 would track better in passive mode if you tried a Leica style 360 prism with it instead of the arrayed circular prisms that Trimble uses.

Check this post for info. I have used the ATX360 and found no issues with accuracy and do really enjoyed the ability of the instrument to tracome the target.

https://surveyorconnect.com/community/threads/trimble-at360-activetrack-target.310710/

Lee D, post: 447399, member: 7971 wrote: I found that the S6 didn't work nearly as well with Survey pro as it did with Access; maybe in later versions of SP they cleaned it up. When I was in sales I only sold Access, but I had one potential client who wanted an S6 with SP; when I went to do the demo I discovered, to my consternation, that some of the search functionality - like Snap to Target - didn't work right. It made the gun show poorly.

I never found the passive tracking to be any worse than any other passive tracking system per se... with the MT1000 it certainly tracks much better when the prism is active. I think the S6 would track better in passive mode if you tried a Leica style 360 prism with it instead of the arrayed circular prisms that Trimble uses.

I've heard similar stories of people using access in regards to survey pro (never mind my handle, I wish i could change that) However, I've compared survey pro to access on one of our surveys where both programs were used on the S6 to tie and and set control. I did a series of check shots on a same baseline and random pts, and the data comes back nuts, so I'd say it's personal preference,,, which shouldn't be confused with a degradation of results. Access seems to have a few more "tricks" under the hood, but I've simply been under pressure to get jobs done so stuck with what I knew to get it completed.

Surveypro Chad, post: 447529, member: 12063 wrote: I did a series of check shots on a same baseline and random pts, and the data comes back nuts

I never meant to imply that SP would give you different or bad results. It was just some functional issues.

Lee D, post: 447399, member: 7971 wrote: I found that the S6 didn't work nearly as well with Survey pro as it did with Access; maybe in later versions of SP they cleaned it up. When I was in sales I only sold Access, but I had one potential client who wanted an S6 with SP; when I went to do the demo I discovered, to my consternation, that some of the search functionality - like Snap to Target - didn't work right. It made the gun show poorly.

I never found the passive tracking to be any worse than any other passive tracking system per se... with the MT1000 it certainly tracks much better when the prism is active. I think the S6 would track better in passive mode if you tried a Leica style 360 prism with it instead of the arrayed circular prisms that Trimble uses.

I have used S6 passive tracking with all kinds of prisms including Leicas. The problem is that it is too easily distracted. Just a bit of reflective tape on jacket or trousers and when the prism is momentarily blocked then it's off. When traversing it can be hard to keep it on the right prism when they are both in view.
The Leica is much more discerning but when it's a rainy, humid day it will stop tracking much more quickly.

squowse, post: 447818, member: 7109 wrote: I have used S6 passive tracking with all kinds of prisms including Leicas. The problem is that it is too easily distracted. Just a bit of reflective tape on jacket or trousers and when the prism is momentarily blocked then it's off. When traversing it can be hard to keep it on the right prism when they are both in view.
The Leica is much more discerning but when it's a rainy, humid day it will stop tracking much more quickly.

I was actually thinking that another 360 prism would be a good purchase to help tighten up the horizontal errors, was considering a Sokkia ATP1 style prism. I believe it's the most accurate passive 360 prism from what I've read, but I think the problem with the false locking is an instrument flaw rather than prism performance. I don't think that Trimble have developed their passive tracking beyond the introduction of their active targets, but I've also read that the MT1000 has a few issues with vertical accuracy from time to time, that why Trimble designed the AT360 with a single ring.

Does anyone know if you are able to create a target profile in Trimble Survey Controller for the AT360? As far as I'm aware the AT360 needs to set the jigger's EDM to reflectorless/reflective tape mode, but I can't seem to set this with a channel ID in this software.

zammo, post: 448602, member: 9087 wrote: I was actually thinking that another 360 prism would be a good purchase to help tighten up the horizontal errors, was considering a Sokkia ATP1 style prism. I believe it's the most accurate passive 360 prism from what I've read, but I think the problem with the false locking is an instrument flaw rather than prism performance. I don't think that Trimble have developed their passive tracking beyond the introduction of their active targets, but I've also read that the MT1000 has a few issues with vertical accuracy from time to time, that why Trimble designed the AT360 with a single ring.

Does anyone know if you are able to create a target profile in Trimble Survey Controller for the AT360? As far as I'm aware the AT360 needs to set the jigger's EDM to reflectorless/reflective tape mode, but I can't seem to set this with a channel ID in this software.

Yes the AT360 can be chosen as a target. Indeed it needs to be in order to get the right adjustments made. You will probably need a newer version of Access to get this option.
Both MT1000 and AT360 (and generally prisms that aren't nodal) will give poor vertical accuracy when viewed too steeply. Some adjustment is made in access for these two prisms.

Horizontal errors in active mode are next to nothing. The best ones for passive mode will be either a small one like GRZ101 or Leica's flagship GRZ122. Maybe the Sokkia one, not familiar with it.