Trimble Georadio "Red" problems

> Hello.
>
> I bet this topic has been discussed like million times before, but still i start another one..
>
> We have this Trimble 5600 total station with "Red" GeoRadio.
>
> The radio connection between the station and the CU/prism starts going up and down at range approximately 300 feet.
>
> No obstacles whatsoever between the prism / control unit and the station. Batteries are full, cables are ok.
>
> Sometimes it works 100% even in range abt. 600 ft or so, and that´s enough for us.
>
> Are there any simple solutions to this problem? Next time when we go surveying, we thought to change the radio channel, see if theres any difference.
>
> Also i´d like to know the exact frequencies / channels where the Red GeoRadio operates, also the type of modulation. For obvious reasons there are very little, close to zero information about this piece of equipment in the internet.
>
> I appreciate any advice or help with this one in advance.
>
> Best regards,
>
> I.A.
> Finland

First thing I would consider is the DC to radio cable at the pole. When those get a bad connection, you get comm problems.

Second thing is that the red dot radios can be "tuned". What you are describing might be caused by a radio that drifted out of frequency. In the US those radios are now illegal so I don't think I can get mine tuned anymore. In Finland, I don't know.

Worst case, I had a similar problem. It was a radio going bad. You have to figure out which one (internal or external). If you have a second external radio try switching them out, if the problem persists, it's the internal radio. I replaced my internal a few years ago and haven't had the problem since.

Thank You very much for the reply!

> First thing I would consider is the DC to radio cable at the pole. When those get a bad connection, you get comm problems.

I´ll have to double check this one, maybe change the connectors.

> Second thing is that the red dot radios can be "tuned". What you are describing might be caused by a radio that drifted out of frequency. In the US those radios are now illegal so I don't think I can get mine tuned anymore. In Finland, I don't know.

These are legal still in here.

Propably needs a motherload of reverse engineering... :-/ I had the ext. radio once opened, and there was some oxidation which i cleaned from the PCB. It did not make a difference whatsoever, i think.

> Worst case, I had a similar problem. It was a radio going bad. You have to figure out which one (internal or external). If you have a second external radio try switching them out, if the problem persists, it's the internal radio. I replaced my internal a few years ago and haven't had the problem since.

Too bad, we ain´t got a spare ext. radio. I would be interested of purchasing one, second hand.

best regards

I.A.

I.A.

You might want to try replacing the antennas on either end of the connection.

I have had visually perfect, not abused, antennas be the problem.

JA, PLS SoCal

Jerry A.,

Thank You. There´s a spare antenna in the tachymeters´s carrying box, i´ll take that in use next time surveying. We´ll see what happens. I´ll be posting results here accordingly.

best regards,

I.A.

> Hello.
>
> I bet this topic has been discussed like million times before, but still i start another one..
>
> We have this Trimble 5600 total station with "Red" GeoRadio.
>
> The radio connection between the station and the CU/prism starts going up and down at range approximately 300 feet.
>
> No obstacles whatsoever between the prism / control unit and the station. Batteries are full, cables are ok.
>
> Sometimes it works 100% even in range abt. 600 ft or so, and that´s enough for us.
>
> Are there any simple solutions to this problem? Next time when we go surveying, we thought to change the radio channel, see if theres any difference.
>
> Also i´d like to know the exact frequencies / channels where the Red GeoRadio operates, also the type of modulation. For obvious reasons there are very little, close to zero information about this piece of equipment in the internet.
>
> I appreciate any advice or help with this one in advance.
>
> Best regards,
>
> I.A.
> Finland

Aloha, I.A:
I had similar issue in the past. It was fully charged "bad battery." I also noticed the four pin Hirose to DB-9 cable goes bad at the DB-9 connector...you might want to start your cable troubleshooting there first. My Trimble dealer wanted to replace the internal radio 🙁

I switch to Parani Bluetooth now.

> Aloha, I.A:
> I had similar issue in the past. It was fully charged "bad battery." I also noticed the four pin Hirose to DB-9 cable goes bad at the DB-9 connector...you might want to start your cable troubleshooting there first.

My Trimble dealer wanted to replace the internal radio 🙁

No doubt they wanted to.. :-/
>
> I switch to Parani Bluetooth now.

Have to google around on Parani.

Thanks again for the reply,
we have original batteries, could be 5 or more years old. Common sense truly tells that i should refurbish the battery pack, we had that also on the agenda.

It seems that we have gathered a lot of different variables on quite short notice, hats off to You folks 🙂 We´ll see how this ends. At least, it can´t get worse anymore (hope so) ...

Best Regards,
I.A.

> > I switch to Parani Bluetooth now.
>
> Have to google around on Parani.
>
http://www.senaindustrial.com/products/industrial_bluetooth/index.php?tab_menu=SD

One thing i did not mention yet:

With the older control unit with LCD display there were no problems.

After changing to the CU with touch screen and windoze embedded this radio issue popped up. Don´t know if there is a connection with the problem, but but...

Hello hello,

we had a test run today (subject: radio channels).

After setting up the station to a empty parking lot, we started taking distance with the prism from the tachymeter. Every now and then, 2-3 times we stopped and commanded the station to seek for the prism. It did, everything went OK this far.

GeoRadio at channel 1, at about 390 feet, the CU on the rod/prism announced "Connection is up" (note: it did not say first that the connection would be down)

We proceeded little further, and then the CU said "connection down - connection up" at approximately 490 feet.

So, we went back to the station and changed the radio channel from 1 to 2. Again we started taking distance, seeked the prism a couple of times, and then..

Same things happened, at precisely same distance, at different radio channels.
First CU said "connection is up", etc. etc.

I think that this is not about the channels. We also had a different antenna connected to the tachymeter.

Maybe this has something to do with rod radio´s battery pack? Could it be that when the distance between CU/prism and the station reaches a certain point, the radio "suffocates" in lack of amperes from the battery.

Next plan would be to use a refurbished and double capacity battery in the rod radio (edit: for the sake of clarity i must mention, that this is not a GPS-issue). To be continued...

Any comments?

best regards,
I.A.

I guess you have the availability of time to seek the cause of the problem. Please don't read harsh sarcasm in my reply, it is not intended. My only comment as one who's time spent looking for a problem can be very costly - try replacing the data collector to radio cable. Get one from western states cable.
While you're at it, get two. The cable is one of the weak links in the 5000 series robots. It is far better to have an extra $100 cable with you than accumulate multiples of that with downtime.

Thanks again! I´ll take a another look for that cable too.

First time when i was checking through the prism rod and the..

what´s the english name for the "pad" attached to the rod where the CU is mounted..

anyway, the cable between the radio and the "pad" had no strain relief at all.

best regards,
I.A.

Hello hello..

Just to keep this thread "alive", OP now posts some. Same story persists, in robotic mode max. range is abt. 120-160 meters. Then, connection suddenly is lost and after a couple of seconds re-established. After that, the same thing happens every once and a while except that the range reduces to 100 and above meters.

Today i opened the 5605:s covers, and took a look around. An interesting and educating journey it was. There was some white rust in radio compartment. Moisture which condensates in side can make all kinds of trouble, no need to mention. At least now the machine has had an opportunity to thoroughly dry in room temp covers opened.

Main reason for todays near surgical operation were those two backup batteries (LR/CR2430, 3 volt each). They were exhausted (installed in 2007) so had to change them anyway. These batteries don´t neccesarily affect directly to the radio, but in the whole i think it´s a good idea to keep them too in condition.

As a suprise, one of the batteries legs was soldered cold. At least that thing is fixed now. Of course, we are simultaneously at the moment considering to upgrade the old red dot radio sys. to the new blue light version. Still, as curious as i am, i would definitely like to solve this weird fault. Lack of written information like schematics and maintenance manuals is of course an obstacle. Well, time will tell how this ends.

Best regards,

I.A.

Well well...

After all, the 5605 ended to the dealers workshop for service.

It happened so, that when i desoldered the old button cell batteries from inside the 5605, it lost it´s firmware.

So now we have learned that while changing internal batteries, a temporary backup voltage must be provided to the printed circuit board while the old batteries are disconnected.

Also, there was somekind of fault in the tachymeters radio part which they could fix by simply connecting their maintenance computer to the device and then ... Who knows. Of course they would not tell spesifically what kind of operation was done.

Summa summarum, this was not an antenna problem, not an power source / contact problem, but something in the radios software configuration. Case closed, might i say.

Thank to everyone who participated in this discussion!

Hi Discussion:
I have a 5601 with the Georadio 600 talking to a ACU collector. Lately, with the cold weather here in New York, the setup refuses to go robotic. Works fine in the office where it warm, nada outside. ACU says it's trying to contact the total station, red light flashes on the radio, but they don't connect. Anyone else ever have this problem? Would love to have some ideas before I bring it in to the shop.
Thanks,
Paul