> did trimble do this intentionally, or did something unforeseen change?
Obvious design problem with the software.
Also I was able to finally download the Ashtech stuff (musta done something wrong on download), we'll see if she works tomorrow.
In regards of processing data from older Trimble GPS systems, how far back does TBC goes? Which model is the cutoff? 5800? 5700? 4700? 4600, etc...?
> In regards of processing data from older Trimble GPS systems, how far back does TBC goes? Which model is the cutoff? 5800? 5700? 4700? 4600, etc...?
If someone buys a car that has a design flaw the manufacturer fixes the flaw. Simple. Lucky for me Ashtech software works. It doesn't pay to buy Trimble as apparently they can pull the rug out from under you at any moment.
Cheating
Well...they say that cheaters never win, and they are probably right in this case.
As I had feared (and Jim Frame indicated), the problem is probably in the Navigation File (Time & timing). So far, NO JOY, and I'm not sure how comfy I would be with a kludge like this anyway.
If I have a little more "time" later (pun intended), I'll play around with it some more now that I have a couple of files.
🙁
Loyal
Leica's current software only supports data from receivers back to the 399's, 299's are a no go, of course 399's date from around 1995, so 299's would be a pretty old unit, I think early 1990's.
Doesn't help the current situation with TGO, but just wanted to point out that most brands seem to put older equipment and software out to pasture.
Of course, the old software and equipment still works together, you just can't read the old data files with new software, so maybe a bit of a different situation than just plain not working.
I will say a few years ago, Leica came out with a fix within just a few days when the 500's which were way out of production quit working, I think it had to do with a new SV being turned on or something.
SHG
5800? 5700? 4700? 4600, etc...? I did not work with TBC for too long but it is possible to convert the above receiver data to RINEX and than load in TBC. Not sure if 5800 4600 antenna models are supported in TBC though...
The Advanced version is $3000.... Standard is $500
As far as I know, TBC supports all the older recievers and also Rinex...
Update
I spoke with my trimble rep this morning at Western Data Systems. He is unaware of this but indicated that he would speak to Trimble today. Should I find anything that helps me, I will pass it along to everyone else.
For today, I'm having to take all of my infill shots from last week (John Francis moment) and convert them all to an OPUS-RS solution since I can't process the SOB's.
Here's to another cup of coffee and about 3 hours out of my day that I hadn't planned on.
Wendell, if you could sticky this, I would appreciate it. This is a HUGE hurdle to overcome and not buy the 3k software.
> The Advanced version is $3000.... Standard is $500
Thanks, Tom. Since most of my work is L1-only, the Standard version ought to do the trick. To save my hair, I'm planning on carrying of with my long habit of simply using the Trimble software to process vectors and exporting the vectors to Star*Net for adjustment.
Do you happen to know what formats TBC uses for its vector solution files? I assume that they aren't .ssf and .ssk files.
Update
Same thing with my Trimble rep. Apparently all were caught unaware.
He did offer a temporary fix. TBC can be had on a free 30 day trial so you might be able to use that until Trimble solves the problem.
Now this is my personal opinion and nothing else, but I'd bet the "fix" will be to offer TGO users an upgrade to TBC at some reduced rate. Time will tell if my guess is correct.
Update
I agree. I had the same offer.
I just spent my morning inventing new physics to process THREE points!!!! That GOD for Opus-RS and dual frequency receivers and my crew having the freaking thought pattern to wait on the point long enough.
FINALLY have my points in and my traverse between them adjusted. What SHOULD have taken MAYBE an hour has cost me 4 1/2 hours. THANKS A HELLUVA LOT TRIMBLE!!!!!!!
Update
Trimble processing software quit working once before and I can't remember if it was Y2K or the GPS clock rollover. Whichever it was the only solution trimble offered was to upgrade GPSurvey/Trimmap to TGO. The solution worked and in the longrun was OK because I think TGO was a much better product but at the time it seemed wrong for them to dump what was a $14.5K software package without fixing it. I can say that since upgrading to TGO I have not bought a single Trimble product.
Update
Want to take bets on whether or not Trimble has lost the source code to their program and that's why they can't/won't make a patch?
Update
An interesting hypothesis...the code must be 15+ years old in a programming language likely not in common usage anymore.
While I am going to bet that given the size of the problem Trimble will be motivated to fix it, I wouldn't hazard a guess on how long it might take.
Maybe they need to hire Mike Potterfield (just like Clint Eastwood in Space Cowboys) to fix an antiquated system.
Update
> Trimble processing software quit working once before and I can't remember if it was Y2K or the GPS clock rollover. Whichever it was the only solution trimble offered was to upgrade GPSurvey/Trimmap to TGO. The solution worked and in the longrun was OK because I think TGO was a much better product but at the time it seemed wrong for them to dump what was a $14.5K software package without fixing it.
Actually, GPSurvey was still working just fine until the billionth GPS second arrived a few days ago. To their credit, Trimble posted a Y2K patch for GPSurvey that worked perfectly well and has made updated receiver.ini and antenna.ini files available for download to keep it pretty much rocking along. In fact, the various patches worked so well that the version of GPSurvey I had originally bought as an L1-only version became an L1/L2 version, which was an unexpected dividend.
Update
An emergency solution:
Transform raw data files to Rinex format.
Edit Rinex files and change:
1) Substract year by 6. Example: 2011 by 2005.
2) Substract GPS week by 313. Example: 1654 by 1341
3) Save and process with GPSurvey or TGO.
4) Edit baseline report ascii file and change again 2005 by 2011.
5) Dont send me to go to hell. It´s works.
The reason: base time in GPS architecture is GPS week and GPS second.
01/Jan/2011 and 01/01/2011 were Saturday.
Processing software do the same time differences.
ASHTECH raw data files (B*.* and E*.*) has only week number and seconds. Year only appear in filename and is not used.
Therefore Result are correct.
Example: GPS rinex file in date 24/Sep/2011, GPS week 1654
Change in Rinex observation files:
replace "11 9 24" by "05 9 24"
and 2011 by 2005 in Rinex record Time of First obs and Time of last obs
Change in Rinex navigation file:
replace "0.156400000000D+04" by "0.134100000000D+04"
replace "11 9 24" by "05 9 24"
Avoid change columns position of the data to avoid corrupt file.
SAVE AND PROCESS. Excuse my (bad) english.
Update
Dario
Thanks for posting this solution.
Editing the obs file is simple enough and can be done quickly but I'm not sure about the nav file. I believe the date and time appears following the satellite number on multiple lines throughout the file. It would be a time consuming error prone task to change all of the time references by hand.
I am not real familiar with rinex files so I might be misinterpreting what you have said. You have shown some examples but could you post examples of actual unedited and edited files? Just the first page of both file types would be a big help.
A few of us here are trying to solve the same problem so if you want to send me anything direct by email my address is [email protected]
Update
Of course is an emergency solution but it works.
I tested this procedure many years ago when Y2K and tested now again with actual data processing with GPSurvey and TBC 2.40.
You dont have to do by hand. You can do with a replace command with a text editor.
I use Kedit.exe (mansfied software)for example.
But You can edit Rinex observation files with MS Word and
replace the string "yy mm dd" for the new year zz "zz mm dd".
Doing this way avoid to wrong replace other records.
Example:
*** top of original file ***
2.11 OBSERVATION DATA GPS(GPS) RINEX VERSION / TYPE
cnvtToRINEX 2.11.0 convertToRINEX OPR 26-Sep-11 01:42 UTC PGM / RUN BY / DATE
----------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT
pf05 MARKER NAME
pf05 MARKER NUMBER
GNSS Observer Trimble OBSERVER / AGENCY
0220394038 5700 2.30 REC # / TYPE / VERS
TRM39105.00 ANT # / TYPE
2269096.2347 -4707251.6902 -3645061.1470 APPROX POSITION XYZ
-0.0460 0.0000 0.0000 ANTENNA: DELTA H/E/N
1 1 0 WAVELENGTH FACT L1/2
4 C1 L1 L2 P2 # / TYPES OF OBSERV
2011 9 24 17 53 20.0000000 GPS TIME OF FIRST OBS
2011 9 24 21 41 40.0000000 GPS TIME OF LAST OBS
0 RCV CLOCK OFFS APPL
15 LEAP SECONDS
14 # OF SATELLITES
G02 1608 1608 1608 1608 PRN / # OF OBS
G04 1320 1320 1320 1320 PRN / # OF OBS
G05 1991 1991 1991 1991 PRN / # OF OBS
G07 2741 2741 2741 2741 PRN / # OF OBS
G08 2741 2741 2741 2741 PRN / # OF OBS
G10 2741 2741 2741 2741 PRN / # OF OBS
G13 2316 2316 2316 2316 PRN / # OF OBS
G15 71 71 71 71 PRN / # OF OBS
G16 966 966 966 966 PRN / # OF OBS
G17 17 17 17 17 PRN / # OF OBS
G20 672 672 672 672 PRN / # OF OBS
G23 1398 1398 1398 1398 PRN / # OF OBS
G26 1283 1283 1283 1283 PRN / # OF OBS
G28 1751 1751 1743 1743 PRN / # OF OBS
CARRIER PHASE MEASUREMENTS: PHASE SHIFTS REMOVED COMMENT
END OF HEADER
11 9 24 17 53 20.0000000 0 9G02G04G07G08G10G13G16G20G23
23718707.88316 -128282.81616 -86635.43456 23718707.46156
21783243.82017 -59758.25417 -40257.66058 21783244.89158
20663161.58617 -142830.97717 -94665.37159 20663160.85959
22355029.60216 -205132.28516 -136702.35557 22355032.02357
22172453.64817 -180603.31317 -119245.63758 22172454.06658
20814699.96117 -43334.47717 -28570.57058 20814698.83658
23459459.08616 -81225.22716 -53644.24257 23459459.13757
22290204.85216 38346.38716 24992.47357 22290205.37157
11 9 24 17 53 25.0000000 0 9G02G04G07G08G10G13G16G20G23
......
*** end of original file ****
*** top of modified file***
....
2005 9 24 17 53 20.0000000 GPS TIME OF FIRST OBS
2005 9 24 21 41 40.0000000 GPS TIME OF LAST OBS
....
05 9 24 17 53 20.0000000 0 9G02G04G07G08G10G13G16G20G23
23718707.88316 -128282.81616 -86635.43456 23718707.46156
21783243.82017 -59758.25417 -40257.66058 21783244.89158
20663161.58617 -142830.97717 -94665.37159 20663160.85959
22355029.60216 -205132.28516 -136702.35557 22355032.02357
22172453.64817 -180603.31317 -119245.63758 22172454.06658
20814699.96117 -43334.47717 -28570.57058 20814698.83658
23459459.08616 -81225.22716 -53644.24257 23459459.13757
22290204.85216 38346.38716 24992.47357 22290205.37157
05 9 24 17 53 25.0000000 0 9G02G04G07G08G10G13G16G20G23
.....
***end of modified file ***
Save as text without format.
Rinex navigation file is a little more complicated:
*** top of original file ****
2.10 NAVIGATION DATA GPS(GPS) RINEX VERSION / TYPE
cnvtToRINEX 2.11.0 convertToRINEX OPR 26-Sep-11 01:42 UTC PGM / RUN BY / DATE
----------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT
0.2235D-07 0.1490D-07 -0.1192D-06 -0.1192D-06 ION ALPHA
0.1290D+06 0.0000D+00 -0.2621D+06 0.2621D+06 ION BETA
0.186264514923D-08 0.888178419700D-14 147456 119 DELTA-UTC: A0,A1,T,W
15 LEAP SECONDS
END OF HEADER
4 11 9 24 17 59 44.0 0.240915920585D-03 0.111413100967D-10 0.000000000000D+00
0.130000000000D+02 0.535312500000D+02 0.501806616545D-08-0.126826539319D+01
0.280328094959D-05 0.982764875516D-02 0.106766819954D-04 0.515371054268D+04
0.583184000000D+06 0.290572643280D-06-0.300198193401D+01 0.391155481339D-07
0.938435309575D+00 0.160062500000D+03 0.768060242026D+00-0.823105714228D-08
0.431089385175D-09 0.100000000000D+01 0.165400000000D+04 0.000000000000D+00
0.240000000000D+01 0.000000000000D+00-0.651925802231D-08 0.130000000000D+02
0.582792000000D+06 0.400000000000D+01 0.000000000000D+00 0.000000000000D+00
7 11 9 24 18 0 0.0 0.283662229776D-04 0.193267624127D-11 0.000000000000D+00
....
*** end of original file ****
In red is the GPS week number.
You have to replace week number 1654 by 1341, that is substract 313 to actual gps week number.
so edit with MS Word and do two replace:
1) Replace "0.165400000000D+04" by ""0.134100000000d+04"
2) Replace "11 9 24" by "05 9 24"
Doing this way avoid do other incorrect replacements.
*** top of modified file ***
2.10 NAVIGATION DATA GPS(GPS) RINEX VERSION / TYPE
cnvtToRINEX 2.11.0 convertToRINEX OPR 26-Sep-11 01:42 UTC PGM / RUN BY / DATE
----------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT
0.2235D-07 0.1490D-07 -0.1192D-06 -0.1192D-06 ION ALPHA
0.1290D+06 0.0000D+00 -0.2621D+06 0.2621D+06 ION BETA
0.186264514923D-08 0.888178419700D-14 147456 119 DELTA-UTC: A0,A1,T,W
15 LEAP SECONDS
END OF HEADER
4 05 9 24 17 59 44.0 0.240915920585D-03 0.111413100967D-10 0.000000000000D+00
0.130000000000D+02 0.535312500000D+02 0.501806616545D-08-0.126826539319D+01
0.280328094959D-05 0.982764875516D-02 0.106766819954D-04 0.515371054268D+04
0.583184000000D+06 0.290572643280D-06-0.300198193401D+01 0.391155481339D-07
0.938435309575D+00 0.160062500000D+03 0.768060242026D+00-0.823105714228D-08
0.431089385175D-09 0.100000000000D+01 0.134100000000D+04 0.000000000000D+00
0.240000000000D+01 0.000000000000D+00-0.651925802231D-08 0.130000000000D+02
0.582792000000D+06 0.400000000000D+01 0.000000000000D+00 0.000000000000D+00
7 05 9 24 18 0 0.0 0.283662229776D-04 0.193267624127D-11 0.000000000000D+00
.....
***end of modified file ***
Save the file as text without format.
Avoid moving data position. Rinex is a formatted file. This cause corrupt file.
You have to be careful with this solution after 29Feb2012, a leap-year, because you have to choose 2007 instead of 2006 and you have to substract 261 to GPS week number instead of 313 now.
March, 01, 2007 (week 1677) and March, 01, 2012 (week 1416). both are thursday, that is day of week 4. GPS second into their week are equals.
Obviously, if you try to process this GPS data with real 2005 GPS data, you will get an explosion.
Regards.
Dario,
Buenos Aires.
Update
Sorry. seems to blank space dissapear.
Dario