First:
Which end of the chain is more important? If the head of the chain is not carefully centered over the point and the measurement is not carefully read, then the measurement will likely be in error. If the tail of the chain is not carefully centered over the point (the right point), the same is also true.
RTK (or GPS in general) is the same way. If the base is in a bad environment, it doesn't matter if the rover is in the open or not. The tail of the chain, which is the base is going to induce error in the measurement. If the base is not programmed to be on the right coordinate, then the tail end of the chain, which is the base is going to have error. Selection of a good base point is key to having good corrections for the rover, and ultimately for good measurements to the rover points.
Second:
If your crew struggles to use a shovel correctly, it may be unreasonable to expect them to properly operate highly technical GNSS equipment, robotics, data collection, etc. As a surveyor (not a salesman or technical support provider) it is my opinion that correct use of the shovel is the most important skill of any surveyor or survey crew member. The relative importance of technological skill will always be just below the skill of finding the right monuments (often at the end of a shovel).
For me, the shovel is secondary. It's just a tool to prove where the math has lead me. 🙂 Without the math, how would I have known where to dig? 🙂
I kinda think the plumb bob is the most important tool. It can hammer nails, scratch 'X's on sidewalk and 1/4's on rocks. Have used it to take field notes on the back of a BT tag 'cause the field book and pencil were back in the office. Use it a lot for lining myself up when prolonging line. Makes a good target.
I could go on.
[sarcasm]If you are suggesting that mathematical points should trump a monument then I'm afraid you haven't really grasped the essence of surveying. Perhaps that's acceptable in Cherokee County, but you'd be hard pressed to sell that any place else. Although, I'm sure it's convenient since one can have an endless supply of mathematical points in the back of the truck in place of the shovel.[/sarcasm]
Just kidding, Kris. I hope you catch the innuendo.
As long as the math puts your fingers on the stake, I'm right there with you.
I don't need a shovel. Go to the calculated spot and set a monument, easy.
Lamon Miller, post: 371903, member: 553 wrote: I don't need a shovel. Go to the calculated spot and set a monument, easy.
Ah, so now you've touched upon the second most important tool in the truck... the hammer.
[sarcasm]Unless you're in Cherokee County, then just set a point. No need for shovel or hammer, just math.[/sarcasm]
(Sorry Kris, this is getting to be addictive).
My head is the most important tool. When things don't go as I expected I bang it against the nearest vertical surface. This usually brings me back around.
AlanG, post: 371906, member: 7306 wrote: My head is the most important tool. When things don't go as I expected I bang it against the nearest vertical surface. This usually brings me back around.
Calibration...
🙂
[sarcasm]All of you have it wrong. The ability to read trumps shovels and math. If you can't read a deed, what good are you?[/sarcasm]
A chain is no more accurate than the least accurate link.
Tommy Young, post: 371948, member: 703 wrote: [sarcasm]All of you have it wrong. The ability to read trumps shovels and math. If you can't read a deed, what good are you?[/sarcasm]
And what make you think Mr. Trump owns a shovel?
Sorry, was that too political? 😀
Kris Morgan, post: 371895, member: 29 wrote: For me, the shovel is secondary. It's just a tool to prove where the math has lead me. 🙂 Without the math, how would I have known where to dig? 🙂
A wise and long-experienced surveyor in my area once said "First go find the boundaries, then come back and measure them." In areas where people have actually used their land or where it is or was customary to somehow mark one's boundaries or enclose one's land, I've found that looking at the physical indications and using nothing more than a locator and a shovel have effectively & reliably gotten me to more corners than have precalculated coordinates.
All I'd say to that, is we MUST conform to the needs of each job. And, those needs may vary. They are not all the same. One of my favorite stories, is about some surveyor in CA, that surveyed a whole Section, via total station. Did much other work based on his sectional breakdown, went to record it....
Found out that there was a correctional glo resurvey, some 300' offset.
He said "and then the fun started"...
How many times have I completed a survey... And the found out what I really needed to know, and wished I'd done it different.. Sometimes a day later. Sometimes a month later, Sometimes 15 yrs later...
Nate The Surveyor, post: 372126, member: 291 wrote:
How many times have I completed a survey... And the found out what I really needed to know, and wished I'd done it different.. Sometimes a day later. Sometimes a month later, Sometimes 15 yrs later...
This is the attitude that I like to think I have developed over the years. 35 years ago, anything I didn't know about surveying wasn't worth knowing.
Trying to determine what actually happened in the past is something we share with historians, archeologists, detectives, judges and juries. I have developed both skepticism and admiration for the results of all of their work.