I completed an ALTA survey for a client 4 years ago that never closed. Now the same client has emailed me and says that the deal is back on (same buyer), but the effective date on the Title Commitment has expired and wants to know if I can update it on the survey to the new date. This is the first time I've received a request to update the effective date. The site and title commitment are unchanged, so if I update the title commitment effective date on the survey, should I also change the field work and map date or leave them as the 2011 dates?
Thanks
Kelly
You will receive many answers. All will suggest a new date requires a new survey even if it looks as though there are no changes.
In 4 years nothing has changed?? Really?? You willing to bet your license on that?
You need to do a "Field verification survey". You need to request, as
a minimum, a new title abstract (an easement that you don't know about?).
Then, and only then, you can add a note that field conditions were verified on site on such and such date and that a current title report/abstract was provided and any changes are reflected on the plat and then you are safe to change the dates to current dates.
Realize too that IF the lender has changed and you have the old lender in the certificate, then it's a whole different can of worms. If ANY of those certified to changes, then in order to "protect the public" you are back to square one. Just ONE of the new guys you certify to now gets heart burn in getting a 4 year old survey on which to place his money, and you got BIG problems.
Your license, your call.
> I completed an ALTA survey for a client 4 years ago that never closed. Now the same client has emailed me and says that the deal is back on (same buyer), but the effective date on the Title Commitment has expired and wants to know if I can update it on the survey to the new date. This is the first time I've received a request to update the effective date. The site and title commitment are unchanged, so if I update the title commitment effective date on the survey, should I also change the field work and map date or leave them as the 2011 dates?
>
> Thanks
> Kelly
maybe I am confused, but if the Title Commitment has not changed the Title Company needs to change the date on it.
new commitment, and 4 years of who knows what going on at the site =
1. careful site inspection
2. review commitment and supporting documents
3. fresh survey records and ad joiner deed search
4. some drafting time
5. must be something else!
If the Owner can get the Buyer, and Lenders to be satisfied that there is No Change, then they don't need to talk about an old date on a piece of paper. They can go thru the punch list above and save a bunch of money!
To be completely honest, I don't know yet if the site and commitment are exactly the same, but I know what my answer is to them if there are changes. I'm just curious what others thought if the site and commitment are exactly the same (minus the new effective date on the commitment). I've never had a request like this, typically new parties and commitment are involved, so I treat it as new survey or at least an update.
> To be completely honest, I don't know yet if the site and commitment are exactly the same, but I know what my answer is to them if there are changes. I'm just curious what others thought if the site and commitment are exactly the same (minus the new effective date on the commitment). I've never had a request like this, typically new parties and commitment are involved, so I treat it as new survey or at least an update.
I am 95% retired now but I did see quite a few requests like that in my day.
there is no way to get around the efforts that are involved, it takes a bit of time, every time.
I am glad you are not gonna rubber stamp it to be "nice".
Being "nice" will get you.....every time! You have nothing to gain.
> Being "nice" will get you.....every time! You have nothing to gain.
:good:
IMVHO, your survey should remain unchanged, survey date and all.
The title company's effective date in no way changes your survey of 4 years ago.
They are assuming the liability of accepting your survey untouched, so let them accept it as is with no changes.
I will never move up the date of any survey unless I examined my previous survey on the ground and completed a records search from that date forward.
Local title companies use the last recorded instruments in their title commitments.
They then ask for a new survey if the mortgage company or client requests one.
I have done one ALTA for a factory expansion and I believe it was the only one this county and the local title company has ever seen. It has been used several times for loan renewal and one change of owner transfer without any updates showing those new improvements since the survey was completed.
I was contacted once by my original client about updating the survey because he did not have a copy of the survey. It took his people a few hours to be locate his originals inside the files in his own office. It was the first time he had actually seen the drawing.
Just because they ask does not actually mean that we should do anything.
I know that many of my requests fall on deaf ears and I would imaging the same has occured for many other surveyors out there.
:gammon:
Right. I'm not looking to be nice or do them a favor. I did a good bit of work for this company 5 Years ago, but the person I worked with then has moved on. This email came at the end of the day and I'm just looking for opinions before I respond back today.
This is the first thing that came to mind, I just didn't know if it would be the wrong thing to do. Like you said, if the parties are comfortable using a 4 year old survey and are too cheap to pay for an update, then that's their problem. Some have stated above about needing a new abstract, but it's always been my understanding that an ALTA should be prepared based on the commitment and documents provided, unless you are certifying to all easements being shown, which I don't do.
At minimum I'd ask for a fee to field verify. And I'd still note that the field work was performed in 2011 and only recently verified. Generally, with the title companies I work with- if they're satisfied nothing has changed entitlement-wise- then I'm usually fairly confident they're right. BUT- around here that wouldn't be what scares me. Regardless of table A requirements I'd be scared of utility changes, at least around here. Not sure what it's like in your parts, but the first thing I'd do is one-call it because the infrastructure around here changes on like a daily basis. I can't think of too many sites in this area that would both need or want an ALTA and not have seen some significant alterations/upgrades to the utility infrastructure either servicing the site itself or else something close enough nearby that your survey wouldn't reflect it.
"maybe I am confused, but if the Title Commitment has not changed the Title Company needs to change the date on it."
Why?
I currently have a 14th Amended report which still bears the same effective date as the first one, which was issued 3 years ago...
Was your original survey completed before or after the current standards became effective in February of 2011?
Per the 2011 standards.