Thorough Explanation Of Geodesic/Geodesic Line ?

A little heavy for Christmas ;o)

I'll send you an email.

Ralph:-P

I once heard Alfred Leick state that there were only 3 people in all the world who truly understood the geodesic.

From that I always assumed he must have counted himself as one of them. So one of his several texts might be interesting.

Then again one would have to consider one of the most brilliant geodesists of the last century Thaddeus Vincinty as possibly being one of the three? Not sure though you would have to ask Leick, and Vincinty's works are hard to find in depth, but I think there may be some tomes available.

And lastly, wouldn't anyone have to assume that Bomford was one of the annointed few?

Again I can't say, except to note that much modern geodesy seems to reference if not consider Bomford's book on Geodesy as one of the, it not THE primary reference of the last decade on the fundamentals.

I would think that anyone would have to consider BOMFORD as a significant source of critical information.

But then again Bomford is probably dead and perhaps Leick was only referring to mortals in his remarks.

One thing I am relatively sure of, is that while I have some minimal idea, I am for sure not in the club, and can only lurk in the distant mysteries at the edge of the light of the campfire that shines from those few and all such knowledge.

Then again Leick may NOT be right and his statement of authority just another pompous statement which may turn out to be a red herring in the quest for this mystical concept and thus we are still left with our own opinions and that distant candle of knowledge.

- jlw

LOL, good one Jerry, Vincenty was a genius in my opinion. Just goes to show the value of self education. Another guy who might be considered could be Petr Vanicek, his book is no longer available but I would think Lieck would consider him at least his equal ;0). But Vincenty trumps them all IMO, he figured it out himself.

Ralph

I had some ideas about the holy trinity and how it fit into Leicks remarks, but I didn't get them into the post in time. Who are the 3 wisemen?, who is the father, the son (or sun) and who is the holy ghost?

And will there be a false prophet who declares himself to know all these things?

And it fits the season, but since I didn't post that stuff, it is probably a good thing.

- jlw

PS I will check into your Petr Vanicek. There are a lot of more obscure really knowledgeabie people in the world. I am just not sure if Leick is among them. (But I don't really have the knowledge to know. Some times we are preached to, sometimes we learn, and sometimes we rebel at authority.

Thus is life.

- jlw

I just sent LPL my notes by Laramie Potts, he might not be in that league but I think he's pretty dam good. He's also a regular guy, very palatable. Somebody you could have a beer with.

BTW Laramie's class used the ephemeris from your site.

Ralph

I guess it is more on Geometric Geodesy that you're interested in. Just google it.

Merry Christmas and a Prosperous New Year to all of us.

Regards.

I was pondering a similar question when the TV music channel factoid talked about the times square new year's ball being a geodesic sphere, so I googled it. The geodesic sphere or dome is made up of great circles and is most notably seen at Epcot. I googled more to find: geodesic line - (mathematics) the shortest line between two points on a mathematically defined surface (as a straight line on a plane or an arc of a great circle on a sphere). I can see the calculation on a spheroide or ellipsoide but the geoide would prove a bit more complex. If you cannot find it in geodetic texts, try some math topology texts.

Mathematics is the language with which God has written the universe. - Galileo

Howdy,

Professor Richard Rapp's lecture notes for his two courses in geometric geodesy are available for free download as PDF's.

HTH,

DMM

Hi Jerry,
Here you go (his lecture notes):
UNB Vanicek

Here's his bio:

Petr Vaní?ek (born 1935 in Sušice, Czechoslovakia, today in Czech Republic) is a Czech Canadian geodesist and theoretical geophysicist who has made important breakthroughs in theory of spectral analysis and geoid computation. He initiated the establishing of the Canadian Geophysical Union in 1974, and served as the Union's president between 1986 and 1988. He was the first chairman of the committee for Geodetic Aspects of the Law of the Sea (GALOS), founded in Edinburgh, Scotland by the International Association of Geodesy (IAG) in 1989.[1]

Since he was born into a typical bourgeois family, his wife and children requested to leave Communist Czechoslovakia during the brief but liberal times of Prague Spring. They were granted exit visa just before the Soviet invasion of 1968. The family reunited in England where he was staying on a 1967 Senior Research Fellowship at the University of Liverpool. Together, they immigrated to Canada in 1969. He has one daughter and two sons. He retired as Professor Emeritus in 2002, after more than thirty years of teaching at the University of Toronto and the University of New Brunswick. He lives in Fredericton, Canada.[15]

I've interacted with him several times, really nice man.
BTW, I'm an Alfred Leick fan also.

Ralph

Ralph

Howdy,

A web link for Professor Rapp's papers is: http://en.scientificcommons.org/richard_h_rapp

Enjoy,

DMM

I Downloaded Rapp's Texts

I just finished printing the 16 pages on the Geodesic and find I now have to print out the Normal Section information.

Thanks to all.

Paul in PA

I am his fan too. I wish to personally meet and interact with him.

Vicenty information

Howdy,

For what it's worth, a little bit from the wikipedia entry for TV...

Thaddeus Vincenty (born Tadeusz Szpila; 27 October 1920 in Grodzisko, Lwów Voivodship, Poland; died 6 March 2002 in Washington Grove, Maryland, U.S.) was a Polish American geodesist who worked with the U.S. Air Force and later the National Geodetic Survey to adapt three-dimensional adjustment techniques to NAD 83. [1][2] He's best known for the Vincenty's formulae, a geodesic calculation technique published in 1975 and known for their extreme accuracy — about one-half millimeter.[3] [4]
Vincenty's studies were interrupted by World War II, and he eventually arrived in a displaced persons camp. He arrived in to the United States in 1947, and took his father's first name as his surname. Within months, he enlisted in the Air Force, and only became involved in computer programming and surveying in 1957. After studying via correspondence courses, he published his first research paper in 1963. After 30 years in the Air Force, he left Cheyenne, Wyoming, and took a position at National Geodetic Survey. His contributions to the NAD 83 include the introduction of three dimensional Earth centered coordinates, which unifies locations on Earth with locations in space, an essential development for GPS. Vincenty received the Department of Commerce Medal for Meritorious Service in 1982.[5]

Cheers,

DMM

Geodesy education trends

Howdy,

Given your interest in geometric geodesy, you may find the following article on teaching geodesy to be of interest:
http://mycoordinates.org/geodesy-out-with-the-old-in-with-the-new/

The author is an eminent professor of geodesy and President of the IAG.

Cheers,

DMM

Vicenty information

Hi Mike,
Here's the Eulogy his son wrote on the other Board, reading this is what made me admire his accomplishments, unlike those who have "Topoed, Paved and Geodeticed"

Eulogy for Thaddeus Vincenty Died March 6, 2002Funeral March 11, 2002 By Michael Vincenty

Read below , I had to break it in two. Incredible what he was able to overcome and what he was able to contribute.

Vicenty information

I would like to share with you a bit of background on my Father’s life and tell you about some of the significant events in his life that shaped who he was. Early Years My Father was born in a small village in Poland in 1920. He was the oldest child in a large family.As a youngster he was very bright and always eager to learn. Before he was in kindergarten, he noticed that his elders were able to read newspapers, so he nagged his mother to also teach him to read. She worked with him for a few sessions and soon he was able to read the Polish language.He loved learning, and in school excelled in Polish, Latin, and German. He managed to always get the top marks in his class. But he did tell me story once that when he got his report card he had all A’s except for 2 B’s. Upon seeing this, he was afraid to go home and show is report card to his parents, because he always expected perfection from himself - and from those around him.Later during the War his mastery of the German language would assist him in getting out of difficult and dangerous situations because he could pass as a German.My Father was never afraid to take on learning new and difficult things by himself. At the age of 14 he once heard a concert on the radio. One of the radio announcers spoke in English. When he heard this, he thought that this was a strange language. However, he decided at that moment that he would learn this language. So, he bought himself self-teaching books, written in German to learn English. It took him 10 years to learn English. When his friends saw Dad spending time to learn English, they all laughed and told him he was wasting his time. However, all of this hard work would pay off in the end.My Father went onto Polish secondary schools. The secondary schools in Poland were very specialized schools which prepared students for a profession. There were difficult entrance exams and not many were accepted. And also it was not free. This is where my Father decided that he would become a school teacher.His parents encouraged and supported him on this decision because teaching in Poland was a very prestigious profession. He enrolled in a special high school learning the teaching profession.It was here that my Father was introduced to music, writing music, and conducting music. This school required that all students play a musical instrument. My Father really wanted to learn the violin, however he did not own one at the time so he decided to learn the piano instead. Later of course, he would teach himself to play the violin.In 1939, World War II broke out and this ended my Father’s education. He never complete the last year of his schooling and never got his teaching certificate.As he once told me, “The War came and all future plans went out the window." WW II My Father loved his country Poland and stood for what he believe in. Sometime between 1940 and 1941 my Father joined the “Polish Underground”. While in the underground, he worked with a small group, called a “cell”, that wrote, printed,and distributed resistance news papers. This was an extremely dangerous activity that would mean certain death if he was ever caught by the secret police. He understood the risks yet he took them. In late 1941, his cell was busted by the secret police. Immediately my Father went into hiding. He left his family for fear of reprisals against them by the secret police. He moved around a lot. He assumed a new identity and tried to avoid being caught. And in 1942, at the age of 22, he left Poland, never to return. In Germany He eventually ended up in Nordhausen Germany working for a company that repaired rail tracks for the train systems. He worked as an office assistant and a “gopher”, running errands and getting supplies.The War had a profound impact on my Father. It was during this time he feared for his life, there was constant hunger, he saw the whole destruction of entire cites, and saw the inhumanity of mankind against mankind. And on a very personal level, it was during this time in 1945, in the last few weeks of the War, he witnessed the death of his younger brother, who died in an aerial bombing raid on the city Nordhausen.He did not know how he made it through the War. But, he knew he was very, very lucky. As kids, he always told us kids that “he had a good guardian angel.” He must have. DP Camp Experiences When the War ended in 1945, he ended up at a Polish Displaced Persons camp with thousands of other Poles, near Heilbron Germany. He spent two years there and tried to put his life back together.It was here that Dad got a real paying job as a Polish/English translator,applying for the first time the English language that took him 10 years to learn. He was one of the very few Poles who could speak Polish, English, and German. He would translate for the other Poles in the camp when they needed to communicate with the American soldiers or to the UNRA officials.It was here where Dad also got to apply the teaching skills he learned in high school. He taught the forth grade, all subjects. He loved teaching the young kids in the school and they loved him. He told me that day he left the camp they were all crying.And also, while in this camp, he continued his love for music. He played the organ and conducted the church choir. Dad also played in a five piece band,playing the violin. His band played regularly about once a week and on special occasions such as weddings.Considering all that he had been through during the War, these were good times for him. Immigration to US After two years in the DP camp it was time for a new start. Through the help of his cousin Helen in the United State, he emigrated to the U.S. He stayed with his relatives in Holyoke, Massachusetts.And of course my Father needed a job. He found work on an assembly line machining gun parts for Steven’s Arms. After working at this job for about six months he realized that this line of work was not “his cup of tea”. So one day after having several beers at the local pub, Dad and his buddy talked it over and decide to join the Air Force. Air Force Years Thus, starting a new phase of his life. He also loved the Air Force.In 1948 he completed his first tour of duty in Germany. He worked in an Air Force transport group supporting the Berlin Airlift.In 1950 his transport group supported the Korean War.Then in 1957 he started his second tour in Germany. This tour was to be an important turning point in his life. It was during these next three years he changed is military specialty to “Computing and Surveying” which eventually became the field of Geodesy. This specialty would change and shape his future profession.Also, very important to us, his family, this is where he met our Mother. They met in 1959 and were married in Germany in 1960.Upon returning to the U.S. with his new bride, who could not speak a word of English, he immersed himself in his new profession. He learned everything he could about land surveying. He learned the science of cartography. He learned the mathematics and theory surrounding the Geodetic science. He read professional Geodetic journals. He conducted written correspondence with renowned scientists in the Geodetic field. He started learning how to program these incredible machines called “computers”. He would write computer programs and test his ideas and prove his theories. And soon he started publishing his own ideas and theories about the Geodetic science in professional journals. He wrote and published his works in both in English and in German.He began to make a name for himself.Along the way he managed to start a family, however the credit for raising the children, running the home, keeping order, goes exclusively to our Mother. Dadwas totally engrossed in his work. And he loved his work - not leaving much time for anything else.Like all Air Force families we moved around a lot. We eventually ended up in FE Warren Air Force Base, in Cheyenne, Wyoming where Dad retired from the Air Force in 1969 after 20 years of service. He continued his very same job, this time as a civilian - but earning more money. Throughout this time he continued to publish
papers and get more recognition. After Air Force The year 1976 started yet another very important turning point in my Father’s life and for his family. He got an opportunity to work on a major project for the National Geodetic Survey (NGS). The project was called “North American Datum Adjustment for 1983 - or NAD83 for short. This project was a monumental task that involved integrating land and survey location data taken from all over the Unites States. Dad was the sole individual who developed the mathematical model to integrate this data. His mathematical model was based on a “3-D adjustment”. This is something that had never been done before.Dad published his theory on this model and demonstrated that it would work. He received the prestigious Department of Commerce Silver Medal for his work.Dad had developed quite a following in the Geodetic field, and still today has many admirers for his work and contribution to the Geodetic field.In 1987 he fully retired from the Government.After 1987 he developed a renewed interest in Polish writing. He wrote many articles for several Polish/American news papers. And he developed a love for writing Polish poetry which were also published in these news papers.Wrap Up I am very proud of my Father. He accomplished a great deal during his 81years. Recently in a private moment I told him that I thought he must have had a difficult life. “No”, he told me, “I had a colorful life.”I want to thank the family members and friends here today during this difficult time. However, I would like for all of us to celebrate the accomplishments of our Father, rather than mourn his passing. He would have wanted it this way."

Did he invent the Vincinty Map?

Dale Yawn,
Savannah, Ga.