Term for fast entry of quadrant bearings

HP angle codes:
NE 1
SE 2
SW 3
NW 4
AZ 5 (azimuth)
AL 6 (angle left)
AR 7 (angle right)
DL 8 (deflection left)
DR 9 (deflection right)

> What's the name for the data entry format where you enter quadrant bearings using 1, 2, 3 or 4 as a prefixes for the quadrant?

Quadrant code

> For example, 123 means N23E, 234 means S34E, 345 means S45W, and 456 means N56W.
> Any common terms?

Either prompt for the quadrant before the bearing is input OR use a seperator to combine the quadrant and bearing for input.. 1.652215 = N 65° 22' 13 E. The quadrant code can be anything you choose but 1,2,3,4 are industry standards.

>
> Also, is the 1 optional for the 1st quadrant?

If you are wanting to offer bearing input as well as azimuth input a quadrant code is needed.

> That is, do 123 and 23 both mean N23E in that system?

Depends on the system..right?

> I'm considering adding the option to Copan, and wonder what to call it.
> (Copan currently allows full-circle and alphanumeric quadrant bearings.
> For example, 23 = N23E, 136 = S44E, 225 = S45W, and 304 = N56W.)

If all you offer is an azimuth input you need to offer bearing input as well. I have never come across a recorded map that shows just azimuths.

Dennis:

What does "HP" mean -- hewlett packard?

And in that system, one must always prefix an angle with the relevant HP code?

> Quadrant code
Thanks!

> ... prompt for the quadrant before the bearing is input
I don't think prompts would result in fast data entry.

>...use a seperator to combine the quadrant and bearing for input.. 1.652213 = N 65° 22' 13 E.
That's new to me. The only problem i see with that is it breaks the "standard" (ie, common) way of using the dot to separate DD from MMSS (and the way all angles are input to Copan).

>
> > That is, do 123 and 23 both mean N23E in that system?
> Depends on the system..right?
The system is the one i initially described.

> If you are wanting to offer bearing input as well as azimuth input a quadrant code is needed.
and
> If all you offer is an azimuth input you need to offer bearing input as well.

Yes, as i said, Copan does allow quadrant bearing input (n65.2213e = N 65° 22' 13 E).

My objective is to allow the user to do fast (and "standard") data entry of quadrant bearings. The current copan technique means that fingers must stray away from the number pad, slows things down somewhat. A big advantage is that, as it stands, it's easy to see, looking at the input, whether quadrant or whole-circle values are being used -- even a mixture.

> I have never come across a recorded map that shows just azimuths.
It's the norm in BC and is very common world-wide.

1-65.2213

:beer:

The minus sign could get a bit confusing.

Good ol' CG Survey used to have this ability. Under quick traverse, start with bearing and then enter just what you said. It was awesome and actually remembered the last entry just in case you had multiple lines going the same bearing. Not sure why no one has taken advantage of that.

I wrote a quadrant code entry format for a programmable calculator that i programmed for traverse/sideshot reduction.

I used the integer function to separate the minutes and seconds from the degrees and had the values converted to decimal degrees for the computation. Wasn't too hard to do and should be even easier on a computer.

And yes, I would strongly endorse adding a quadrant entry tool for bearings where you have the format QDD.MMSS as the standard format. Having to enter alpha characters for the bearings is unwieldy to me.

> 1-65.2213

Is that used in other software (for N65°22'13")?

I almost like 1.65.2213 or 1/65.2213 better, only because Copan allows corrections or turned angles to be included in the same bearing expression, and the "-" (or "+" if it were suggested) might be confused with the "minus" (or "plus") operator.

I didn't mean to get into it, but in copan you can have (using whole degrees just for brevity) things like
24 - 2 = 022°
or
s 8 e +3 = 175°

That is how I did it in the HP-67 days. Perhaps some 20 lines of code for all bearings input/output and all calcs in background using decimal AZ. Fastest input rules.

My map checkers use Copan to spot check traverse closures submitted by the private surveyor. I agree that your proposal would speed up data entry and I support your effort.

I had a survey cogo card for my HP48 made by RAMMS. The bearings were entered as:

123.2445 = N23 24 45E

236.4527 = S36 45 27E

and so on

1 = NE
2 = SE
3 = SW
4 = NW

No need for decimal, dash or comma. Cuts down keystrokes.

why not use "1" for azimuths or for quadrant 1? if the bearing input is less that 90 it will work the same whethr it is an azimuth or a NE bearing, and if it is greater than 90 it could work as though it were an azimuth and the actual angle will dictate the "quadrant".

Just a thought. That way, you could easily work azimuths if that is the format in the document or basis of data you are entering.

Tom

> why not use "1" for azimuths or for quadrant 1? if the bearing input is less that 90 it will work the same whethr it is an azimuth or a NE bearing, and if it is greater than 90 it could work as though it were an azimuth and the actual angle will dictate the "quadrant".
I cannot see that working. How would the system handle "2" or "3" prefixes?

Fast entry of quadrant bearings

Thanks everyone for the feedback!

On reflection, there are two alternatives:

The first would be to add these new possibilities
1/12.34 = n12 34e
2/12.34 = s12 34e
3/12.34 = s12 34w
4/12.34 = n12 34w
to the existing possibilities
n12.34e = n12 34e
s12.34e = s12 34e
s12.34w = s12 34w
n12.34w = n12 34w
and
12.34 = n12 34e
167.26 = s12 34e
192.34 = s12 34w
347.26 = n12 34w
Advantages: all three methods can be used for input, unambiguously, at any time; and
new method means keypad can be used exclusively.
Disadvantage: new method does not reduce keystrokes.

The second alternative would be to have a global user setting (radio buttons)
O existing copan input method
O quadrant code prefix input method
and the system would only allow input based on your setting.
The quadrant code input method being simply
112.34 = n12 34e
212.34 = s12 34e
312.34 = s12 34w
412.34 = n12 34w
Advantages: new method means keypad can be used exclusively, reduces keystrokes, and (i think) is an industry standard.
Disadvantage: users who wish to use both new and existing methods need to change user setting each time to switch modes. (Not really any more of a disadvantage than when users "need" to change between DMS and gons, or between N-azims and S-azims!)

I'm favoring the second alternative!
Thanks again for indulging me.

> > why not use "1" for azimuths or for quadrant 1? if the bearing input is less that 90 it will work the same whethr it is an azimuth or a NE bearing, and if it is greater than 90 it could work as though it were an azimuth and the actual angle will dictate the "quadrant".
> I cannot see that working. How would the system handle "2" or "3" prefixes?

Obviously I am not explaining it well. "1" would be NE, "2" would be SE, "3" would be SW, and "4" would be NW. If "1" was an azimuth-right (clockwise) from north, it would cover both NE and any azimuth-right from north.

Unless I didn't understand your question.....

Fast entry of quadrant bearings

I would think keeping it unambiguous would be the higher priority. No use making it faster if it is confusing enough to make mistakes more likely.

Fast entry of quadrant bearings

For what it's worth, my favorite method was used by the long-defunct LLCOGO software that was published by Lewis & Lewis. It's similar to the HP convention described above, but with a couple of significant differences.

1 = North azimuth or NE quadrant.
N42°18'18"E would be input as 1042.11818
A north azimuth of 157°14'34" would be input as 1157.1434

2 = SE quadrant.
S42°18'18"E would be input as 2042.1818

3 = SW quadrant.
S42°18'18"W would be input as 3042.1818

4 = NW quadrant.
N42°18'18"W would be input as 4042.1818

5 = Angle right or left.
An angle right of 42°18'18" would be input as 5042.1818
An angle left of 42°18'18" would be input as -5042.1818

6 = Deflection right or left. Similar to angle right/left above.

All done with the numeric keypad, negative sign works to flip the direction as desired. Very fast once you get used to it. I adapted it to my own custom software, and use it regularly.

Adams entry of bearings

Yes, i understand the quadrant-code-prefix method is
112.34 = n12 34e
267.26 = s67 26e
212.34 = s12 34e
312.34 = s12 34w
412.34 = n12 34w
and i think i understand that your suggestion is --to be compatible with the above-- to force a "1" prefix for all azimuth inputs:
112.34 = n12 34e
1112.34 = s67 26e
1167.26 = s12 34e
1192.34 = s12 34w
1347.26 = n12 34w
Is that it? Unfortunately that contradicts (and adds keystrokes to) the current method (used in Copan) of azimuth input
12.34 = n12 34e
112.34 = s67 26e
167.26 = s12 34e
192.34 = s12 34w
347.26 = n12 34w
Adding your method would mean we'd have four methods of azimuth/bearing input: 2 existing and 2 new.

LL method of entry of angles

> For what it's worth, my favorite method was used by the long-defunct LLCOGO
Thanks, t'was worthwhile.

I notice most of your examples had "0" as the second character (when value < 100).
Was that just for clarity, or is it a requirement of the LL/Frame method?