When they do aliquot descriptions they don't monument them. They record a deed with the description, but it never gets monuments on the ground. Nowdays there is a minimum aliquot sized parcel that can be deeded with an aliquot part description. In the 70s "Spaghetti" parcel were quite numerous because the Developer didn't have the expense of surveying and setting monuments. Many of these "Spaghetti"parcels have corner monuments that came from who knows where. In my opinion they are the same as a Subdivision Plat that never had property pins set.
"... now the surveyor is trying to make some sense out of the patchwork properties,,,,,,,,,,needless to say it's not going to look like the BLM manual says in Chapter 3."
You are correct.
Nor should it look like Chapter 3 of the BLM manual.?ÿ At this point chapter 3 is completely irrelevant, and has been for many decades and/or generations of landowners.?ÿ If the surveyor wants to apply the BLM manual, maybe they should read and apply chapters 5 and 6.?ÿ?ÿ
Far too many surveyors can't understand that simple concept when trying "to make sense" of the boundaries.?ÿ The problems really start when surveyors think they are the only ones that can "establish" boundaries, and they and only they, can "monument" boundaries.
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License status of the Surveyor is not relevant as to whether the Survey and stakes set control the boundaries surveyed.
License status is relevant to the ability of the State to regulate the practice of Land Surveying and designate who may hold out to third parties. The State may discipline shoddy work or prosecute unlicensed practitioners.
They are separate and distinct issues.
Boundaries are established by property owners (hopefully with competent professional assistance but it's not necessarily required*), this is why License status is not relevant. If a Land Surveyor is engaged to layout a new or existing boundary they are effectively only proposing a solution, the property owners don't have to accept it. If a subdivider engages a land Surveyor to lay out lots and make Plat which is subsequently used to grant out the lots then the subdivider's action is what cements the Survey as original.
*Modern Subdivision Mapping Statutes do effectively require surveys by licensed surveyors.
Are you saying basically that a Developer can hire a Surveyor to draft a Plat, draft deeds from the Plat, then terminate the services of the Surveyor and set the property corners himself, the corners the Developer set are then the original property corners and thus rule over the Plat?
I dealt with one years ago where that's exactly what happened. One of the lots ended up much smaller than it was supposed to be, lakefront so fairly valuable now (compared to what it was on creation). The satisfying part was the developer ended up years later purchasing the lot next door. The court took back some of that lot and gave it to the one that got screwed by the developer initially. Based the decision on Estoppel. He had promised 50 feet by deed and plat and didn't grant it, so when he came into possession of neighboring lot he immediately lost by operation of law whatever needed to make up the 50 feet he had earlier failed to grant.
I have a number of these sections, it's usually a matter of surveying them inside out, not outside in like chapter 3. Sometimes it's 80 and 40 acre descriptions, sometimes they are smaller 330x660, 165x330, we usually don't get much smaller than that. For this area you can generally figure it out, the important thing is accepting 1/16th and C1/4 corners that don't fit the math solution, then monument them, explain why and put it into the record, I haven't had anyone dispute them if enough documentation is available.
There is a classic case of this where I have surveyed three or four times now. I believe the starting aliquot was a square 10 acre tract that was split north-south to make two 5 acre tracts. The front 5 acre tract was split down into smaller aliquots including a few that were theoretically 82.5 by 165 to resemble the lots in blocks of a subdivision a short distance down the street. Surveying one such tract was my introduction to the mess. This was just outside the city limits along an important roadway. This was all started in the days of outhouses and wells instead of sewer and water lines.
The answer depends on your state laws. It is not possible to do that legally in California today.
i bring this up because it affects my reasoning. For example, say the coffee can monuments can be rejected. Why? The Surveyor was not licensed? No that's not a valid reason. They were way off and the adjoiner never knew or had reason to know they are there and certainly never agreed to them? Yes that is a better reason to use. I was involved in a case where the expert surveyor had the right answer for the wrong reason and his client settled for a compromise line which was never where it was so it's important.
And as Duane points out even if the coffee can monuments are proven to be the original monuments the unlicensed developer-surveyor could be held liable for damage caused to his grantee.
Are you saying basically that a Developer can hire a Surveyor to draft a Plat, draft deeds from the Plat, then terminate the services of the Surveyor and set the property corners himself, the corners the Developer set are then the original property corners and thus rule over the Plat?
We can all agree that a property owner can build improvements, like a fence for example, along any line on his property he may choose. And in doing so he might employ any appropriate tools, including survey instruments, of his choosing.?ÿ ?ÿHe might even hire someone who owns said tools to do the work.?ÿ?ÿ
He might hire a surveyor, or even just a CAD Tech at loose ends, to draft up a preliminary plat?ÿ - for planning purposes.
It as been well shown on these pages that anyone can write a legal description, of any form, and often do. A property owner wishing to sell off a portion?ÿ of his property may call out his fence lines in the deed he writes. It is a short step for this property owner, wishing for things to be more definite,?ÿ to pound in some iron rods at the end of his fence and call those out as well, or instead of, in his writing. And if he can do all that he could dispense with the fence building and just pound in irons were he is thinking about building a fence.?ÿ
So he can certainly get that far. Surveyor having been on site, irons in the ground, legal description in hand, something that looks like a plat drafted. If he can find a cash buyer, or is willing to carry paper, a sale can be made.?ÿ County Recorders everywhere will record the deed without question. He might even be able to record the plat in some places.?ÿ
As long as the buyer does not need to go to the bank for a loan to build, no one will be the wiser. And even then, maybe not.?ÿ If the buyer has the resources to build without borrowing, as the OPs residents would seem to be, then no bank. Mansions might be built, swimming pools, movie stars. Or maybe just a hunting shack.?ÿ When the buyer applies for a building permit, no doubt the fact that the division has not been made through proper channels will come to light. No permit, no building loan. But things built without loans might also be built without permits. So it goes. And if the property is purchased just to "get a key to the gate" on hunting/fishing property....
So things might go on for a very long time and be built out to a very advanced degree without a surveyor ever having been properly involved - or involved at all. It is only when a buyer applies for a loan or a permit that problems could arise.?ÿ ?ÿ?ÿ
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With money comes certain advantages. Everybody likes money. That's why they call it money.
I should add that the core parts of Puyallup and Portland, and everywhere else, were subdivided in this very way.?ÿ Anybody could call themselves a surveyor or an engineer or whatever thay wished.?ÿ ?ÿ
Anybody could call themselves a surveyor or an engineer or whatever they wished.?ÿ ?ÿ
Ezra Meeker did; so remember that, if you are working in the eastern part of Puyallup...
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The original plat of the City of Portland (c.1850) has been lost. It is known who had it done, but who did it is unknown. It really isn't known whether there was any sort of comprehensive original document. What we have is a "copy" made by the County Surveyor (elected, not licensed), and adopted by the City Commissioners, in 1866. By which time the development of Portland was well underway. Notable on that copy is a large block set aside for "Lunatic Asylum".
It seems that said asylum now has adverse possession of its adjoiner's property and of the adjoiner's adjoiner, etc., etc.
