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Survey problems unique to 'nader alley

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(@paden-cash)
Posts: 11088
Topic starter
 

I have an older blue hard covered surveying book, maybe authored by 'Brown', that has a lot of insight on surveying near faults shifted by earthquakes. Quite a treasure trove of info. But our earthquakes in Oklahoma haven't seemed to have shifted anything noticeable, yet.

One thing we do have around here is tornados. Initially one might wonder how having the surface of the earth scoured by a tornado could affect surveying. I'm here to tell you it really, really does. Most of the problems are probably avoidable, some are inherent. Picture this:

A tornado wipes out a half mile wide swatch across a community. The mess it leaves has been well documented by televised news folks. Attempting to recover property pins with 2' of debris (lots of metal) on top of them is a challenge. Heavy equipment scraping up the whole mess for cleanup can destroy corners also. Being a PLSS state, most of our controlling corners can be nearly centered in the arterial roads. If these roads are even open to traffic, they're clogged with utility repair vehicles, emergency vehicles, and even debris. Some corners you simply cannot gain access.

So what happens? People need to know where their property is at (it is not recognizable anymore...the fences left with Dorothy and the house). Properties get resurveyed in a hurry and large numbers of tracts can get laid out from only a few existing pins. It's a mess.

OK, it's been a couple of years since our last "big one". I'm trying to get a survey done in a rural-residential area that has homes approaching 1.5 million bucks on several acres. Now that the area has been cleaned up, some of the wrinkles are starting to show. There are definitely two sets of pins everywhere. The original pins and the resurveys...six feet apart east and west. It has turned into one big mess. In this particular case I believe a transposed direction of a bearing is the culprit, but it may be a moot point. The area has been mostly rebuilt. New high-dollar brick fences. Lots of less than two year old recorded surveys and the every-present peaceful harmony of everybody believing everything is laid back out correctly.

It definitely stretches the limits of the rules with which we apply to our quandaries. I wish Brown had a chapter on tornados....

 
Posted : 12/12/2015 9:25 am
(@holy-cow)
Posts: 25292
 

They play heck with section corner reports, too. That PK nail in a corner post that was 35.4' NE from the monument at the section corner is nowhere to found. Neither is the corner post nor the fence that used to be running from it in two or three directions. Power pole? What power pole? That new shiny one with no nail in it about 15 feet further from the monument than what the corner report indicates?

Several years ago when a tornado nearly wiped Greensburg, Kansas off the face of the Earth a contingent of surveyors from across the State gathered to reset corners all over town. A special consideration is that the county courthouse was severely damaged by the tornado. I have wondered how that worked out. I don't know.

 
Posted : 12/12/2015 10:36 am
(@paden-cash)
Posts: 11088
Topic starter
 

Holy Cow, post: 348832, member: 50 wrote: ..Several years ago when a tornado nearly wiped Greensburg, Kansas off the face of the Earth a contingent of surveyors from across the State gathered to reset corners all over town. ....I have wondered how that worked out...

I can make a real good guess as to "how that worked out"...The OSLS has had at least two similar "call to arms" for smaller communities that basically got 'wiped clean' by twisters. As noble a gesture as it may seem, the results down here were less than satisfying. Take a plat recorded in 1895 (that shows the proverbial " WEST, 2640' " ...and then try to fit everybody back in. There was one particular block where it was difficult to even get the driveways to fit their respective description. There is definitely a lot more to it than just "restaking the plat, or deed".

 
Posted : 12/12/2015 12:01 pm
(@dave-karoly)
Posts: 12001
 

We got called to a State Forest in the Valley fire area. Show up, there are thousands of crews all in white cleaning up hazardous waste and utility crews madly dropping trees everywhere. We found a Caltrans pipe/brass cap under a freshly fallen 30" log. The Forest manager went over there and cut a section out of the log so we can tie it in.

I have found plastic caps intact because it had a rock ring around them, just enough protection.

A dozer building fire line took out a 4x4 concrete monument but it was still connected to the In ground part by the central rebar so the survey crew stood it up and poured a concrete collar around it. There is 5 t-bar/bathey cap monuments nearby all survived dozer mayhem by some miracle. I've been on injured office duty but the Doc cleared me for full duty on Thursday so I'll be going back out there on Monday.

We are on the perimeter of the subdivisions so our success has been 100% so far but there is probably more destruction on the interiors because of yellow cleanup machine mayhem.

 
Posted : 12/12/2015 1:05 pm
(@bajaor)
Posts: 368
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These issues are a good reason to have everything tied to state plane. With OPUS, there's little reason not to do it on most jobs.

 
Posted : 12/12/2015 1:28 pm
(@holy-cow)
Posts: 25292
 

I can think of about 70,000 good reasons not to require it.

 
Posted : 12/12/2015 2:04 pm
(@bill93)
Posts: 9834
 

I missed the significance of the number 70,000, but don't think I want a long list. How about the top few reasons?

 
Posted : 12/12/2015 4:24 pm
(@rj-schneider)
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Bill93, post: 348873, member: 87 wrote: I missed the significance of the number 70,000, but don't think I want a long list. How about the top few reasons?

Reason #69,999(?) - People that don't actually survey "I hereby certify that this survey was made on the ground under my blah blah " obtaining a list of SPCs and simply pasting them with monument calls onto a survey plat - but of course that never happens, right?

 
Posted : 12/12/2015 6:08 pm
(@rj-schneider)
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paden cash, post: 348823, member: 20 wrote: Initially one might wonder how having the surface of the earth scoured by a tornado could affect surveying.

"Boss, we found an ancient downed bw fenceline, and have spent a few hours tracing it out. It makes a giant spiral." o.O

 
Posted : 12/12/2015 6:11 pm
(@holy-cow)
Posts: 25292
 

All 70,000 look the same.

 
Posted : 12/12/2015 7:23 pm
(@dave-karoly)
Posts: 12001
 

TXAU is available to drive off of the Lot today!

 
Posted : 12/12/2015 7:30 pm
(@stlsurveyor)
Posts: 2490
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What a fantastic opportunity to write up a very nice article for society newsletters. An opportunity for you to write the "Nader Chapter".

 
Posted : 15/12/2015 3:15 am