This is a reoccurring topic, but nevertheless, one that needs our persistent attention. The mark that is someday for sale on eBay might be the one you need. No one else will police this problem and eBay has ignored banning the sale of them for years through multiple pleas from various surveyors including myself dating back over ten years. I don't personally have a problem with new and unstamped markers for sale, but the used ones encourage theft, especially when someone sees one like this being listed for $179.00.
If eBay receives enough complaints each time one shows up for sale, perhaps this will be enough to get some attention from them. It will only take about 30 seconds to file the report. I detail the steps below. Click on "Report item" at the upper right portion of the description. Select "Prohibited and restricted items". Select "Government and police related items" or "Illegal items and items encouraging illegal activity". Then select the last one such as "Other illegal activity concerns". if you click on "Stolen items", it asks you for specific information as if it was your personal item.
Thanks!
Reported.
At first I thought you meant some silly plastic pin caps.... I was gonna say...
This may go against the grain, but what if that person came about that honestly. With popular shows like American Pickers, it's easy to see that old usless stuff is valuable. I personally have a musket ball from what I and another local surveyor believe to be from the 1830s - 50s and they go on eBay for not very much. I came about it honestly, and if I didn't like to collect this type of stuff I would consider selling also. While I see where selling old survey points might seem like promoting theft of ones we currently use, there are plenty of brass disks we used to use that are no longer listed in the current system, either disturbed or longer reliable. No telling how they came about it. Unless there is evidence, like a current record that the disk for sale is still in use, then it very well could be an old brass piece of junk waiting to be hung in some office.
I'm sure this wasn't stolen so I agree with you there. If it's not stolen it's obviously fine to sell and own.
I do also see the point if these were to sell at high prices it easily can make others targets to be stolen to be sold.
$179 might not seem like much for the risk and effort to me or you, but $179 is plenty to someone driven by the power of Crack
Rich., post: 368467, member: 10450 wrote: I'm sure this wasn't stolen so I agree with you there. If it's not stolen it's obviously fine to sell and own.
I do also see the point if these were to sell at high prices it easily can make others targets to be stolen to be sold.
$179 might not seem like much for the risk and effort to me or you, but $179 is plenty to someone driven by the power of Crack
As we all know a lot of these are difficult to find. If a person is taking the time to do the research to find these disks just for $179 worth of crack, someone should offer them a job.
Yup. Very true. If only they realized that they might be able to actually be hired somewhere instead of directing their efforts to crime.
I guess it might even be easier for them to steal something to sell from a store than to steal a hammer and chisel and go hunting UCGS disks to break out and sell....
There is (or was) quite a few H 382 Bench Marks around the country, but only 1 (that I could find) dated 1945:
1 National Geodetic Survey, Retrieval Date = APRIL 20, 2016
RR0221 ***********************************************************************
RR0221 DESIGNATION - H 382
RR0221 PID - RR0221
RR0221 STATE/COUNTY- ND/SIOUX
RR0221 COUNTRY - US
RR0221 USGS QUAD - FORT YATES SE (1968)
RR0221
RR0221 *CURRENT SURVEY CONTROL
RR0221 ______________________________________________________________________
RR0221* NAD 83(1986) POSITION- 46 01 19. (N) 100 36 29. (W) SCALED
RR0221* NAVD 88 ORTHO HEIGHT - 489.993 (meters) 1607.59 (feet) ADJUSTED
RR0221 ______________________________________________________________________
RR0221 GEOID HEIGHT - -21.466 (meters) GEOID12B
RR0221 DYNAMIC HEIGHT - 489.971 (meters) 1607.51 (feet) COMP
RR0221 MODELED GRAVITY - 980,554.6 (mgal) NAVD 88
RR0221
RR0221 VERT ORDER - FIRST CLASS II
RR0221
RR0221.The horizontal coordinates were scaled from a topographic map and have
RR0221.an estimated accuracy of +/- 6 seconds.
RR0221.
RR0221.The orthometric height was determined by differential leveling and
RR0221.adjusted by the NATIONAL GEODETIC SURVEY
RR0221.in June 1991.
RR0221
RR0221.Significant digits in the geoid height do not necessarily reflect accuracy.
RR0221.GEOID12B height accuracy estimate available here.
RR0221
RR0221.The dynamic height is computed by dividing the NAVD 88
RR0221.geopotential number by the normal gravity value computed on the
RR0221.Geodetic Reference System of 1980 (GRS 80) ellipsoid at 45
RR0221.degrees latitude (g = 980.6199 gals.).
RR0221
RR0221.The modeled gravity was interpolated from observed gravity values.
RR0221
RR0221; North East Units Estimated Accuracy
RR0221;SPC ND S - 39,500. 591,630. MT (+/- 180 meters Scaled)
RR0221
RR0221 SUPERSEDED SURVEY CONTROL
RR0221
RR0221 NGVD 29 (??/??/92) 489.600 (m) 1606.30 (f) ADJ UNCH 1 2
RR0221
RR0221.Superseded values are not recommended for survey control.
RR0221
RR0221.NGS no longer adjusts projects to the NAD 27 or NGVD 29 datums.
RR0221.See file dsdata.txt to determine how the superseded data were derived.
RR0221
RR0221_U.S. NATIONAL GRID SPATIAL ADDRESS: 14TLR755977(NAD 83)
RR0221
RR0221_MARKER: DB = BENCH MARK DISK
RR0221_SETTING: 7 = SET IN TOP OF CONCRETE MONUMENT
RR0221_STAMPING: H 382 1945
RR0221_STABILITY: C = MAY HOLD, BUT OF TYPE COMMONLY SUBJECT TO
RR0221+STABILITY: SURFACE MOTION
RR0221
RR0221 HISTORY - Date Condition Report By
RR0221 HISTORY - 1945 MONUMENTED CGS
RR0221 HISTORY - 1949 GOOD CGS
RR0221 HISTORY - 1959 GOOD CGS
RR0221
RR0221 STATION DESCRIPTION
RR0221
RR0221'DESCRIBED BY COAST AND GEODETIC SURVEY 1949
RR0221'5.3 MI SE FROM FORT YATES.
RR0221'4.4 MILES SOUTH ALONG A GRADED GRAVELED ROAD FROM THE JUNCTION OF
RR0221'YATES STREET AND STANDING ROCK AVENUE IN SOUTHEAST FORT YATES, THENCE
RR0221'0.9 MILE SOUTHEAST ALONG A GRADED GRAVELED ROAD, 88 YARDS (PACED)
RR0221'NORTH OF A WASH, 45 FEET WEST OF THE CENTERLINE OF THE ROAD, 8.3 FEET
RR0221'EAST OF A FENCE LINE, 2.5 FEET EAST OF A REFERENCE POST, AND SET IN
RR0221'THE TOP OF A CONCRETE POST PROJECTING 0.2 FOOT ABOVE THE GROUND.
RR0221
RR0221 STATION RECOVERY (1959)
RR0221
RR0221'RECOVERY NOTE BY COAST AND GEODETIC SURVEY 1959
RR0221'RECOVERED IN GOOD CONDITION.
Bummer
Edit;
It appears to be UNDER a reservoir on the Missouri River!
I tried twice (different computers) and each time got an error message saying "Enter a valid item number that has not ended." This is on the same screen with a picture of the disk and listing title. But when I refresh the listing it is still active. So I don't know what my trouble is.
Ebay once upon a time had a box for you to add text to your report for clarification. Reading that must have taken too much of their time, so it is no longer there.
We need to keep after ebay, because the sale of used disks creates incentive for people to go pry them out of the mountings.
Loyal, post: 368472, member: 228 wrote: There is (or was) quite a few H 382 Bench Marks around the country, but only 1 (that I could find) dated 1945:
1 National Geodetic Survey, Retrieval Date = APRIL 20, 2016
RR0221 ***********************************************************************
RR0221 DESIGNATION - H 382
RR0221 PID - RR0221
RR0221 STATE/COUNTY- ND/SIOUX
RR0221 COUNTRY - US
RR0221 USGS QUAD - FORT YATES SE (1968)
RR0221
RR0221 *CURRENT SURVEY CONTROL
RR0221 ______________________________________________________________________
RR0221* NAD 83(1986) POSITION- 46 01 19. (N) 100 36 29. (W) SCALED
RR0221* NAVD 88 ORTHO HEIGHT - 489.993 (meters) 1607.59 (feet) ADJUSTED
RR0221 ______________________________________________________________________
RR0221 GEOID HEIGHT - -21.466 (meters) GEOID12B
RR0221 DYNAMIC HEIGHT - 489.971 (meters) 1607.51 (feet) COMP
RR0221 MODELED GRAVITY - 980,554.6 (mgal) NAVD 88
RR0221
RR0221 VERT ORDER - FIRST CLASS II
RR0221
RR0221.The horizontal coordinates were scaled from a topographic map and have
RR0221.an estimated accuracy of +/- 6 seconds.
RR0221.
RR0221.The orthometric height was determined by differential leveling and
RR0221.adjusted by the NATIONAL GEODETIC SURVEY
RR0221.in June 1991.
RR0221
RR0221.Significant digits in the geoid height do not necessarily reflect accuracy.
RR0221.GEOID12B height accuracy estimate available here.
RR0221
RR0221.The dynamic height is computed by dividing the NAVD 88
RR0221.geopotential number by the normal gravity value computed on the
RR0221.Geodetic Reference System of 1980 (GRS 80) ellipsoid at 45
RR0221.degrees latitude (g = 980.6199 gals.).
RR0221
RR0221.The modeled gravity was interpolated from observed gravity values.
RR0221
RR0221; North East Units Estimated Accuracy
RR0221;SPC ND S - 39,500. 591,630. MT (+/- 180 meters Scaled)
RR0221
RR0221 SUPERSEDED SURVEY CONTROL
RR0221
RR0221 NGVD 29 (??/??/92) 489.600 (m) 1606.30 (f) ADJ UNCH 1 2
RR0221
RR0221.Superseded values are not recommended for survey control.
RR0221
RR0221.NGS no longer adjusts projects to the NAD 27 or NGVD 29 datums.
RR0221.See file dsdata.txt to determine how the superseded data were derived.
RR0221
RR0221_U.S. NATIONAL GRID SPATIAL ADDRESS: 14TLR755977(NAD 83)
RR0221
RR0221_MARKER: DB = BENCH MARK DISK
RR0221_SETTING: 7 = SET IN TOP OF CONCRETE MONUMENT
RR0221_STAMPING: H 382 1945
RR0221_STABILITY: C = MAY HOLD, BUT OF TYPE COMMONLY SUBJECT TO
RR0221+STABILITY: SURFACE MOTION
RR0221
RR0221 HISTORY - Date Condition Report By
RR0221 HISTORY - 1945 MONUMENTED CGS
RR0221 HISTORY - 1949 GOOD CGS
RR0221 HISTORY - 1959 GOOD CGS
RR0221
RR0221 STATION DESCRIPTION
RR0221
RR0221'DESCRIBED BY COAST AND GEODETIC SURVEY 1949
RR0221'5.3 MI SE FROM FORT YATES.
RR0221'4.4 MILES SOUTH ALONG A GRADED GRAVELED ROAD FROM THE JUNCTION OF
RR0221'YATES STREET AND STANDING ROCK AVENUE IN SOUTHEAST FORT YATES, THENCE
RR0221'0.9 MILE SOUTHEAST ALONG A GRADED GRAVELED ROAD, 88 YARDS (PACED)
RR0221'NORTH OF A WASH, 45 FEET WEST OF THE CENTERLINE OF THE ROAD, 8.3 FEET
RR0221'EAST OF A FENCE LINE, 2.5 FEET EAST OF A REFERENCE POST, AND SET IN
RR0221'THE TOP OF A CONCRETE POST PROJECTING 0.2 FOOT ABOVE THE GROUND.
RR0221
RR0221 STATION RECOVERY (1959)
RR0221
RR0221'RECOVERY NOTE BY COAST AND GEODETIC SURVEY 1959
RR0221'RECOVERED IN GOOD CONDITION.Bummer
Edit;
It appears to be UNDER a reservoir on the Missouri River!
Also sioux county is the rez.
I would agree that most of these for sale were somehow acquired by legitimate means, but it if you have been around long enough you've come across at least one that has been pried off of a bridge abutment or other place where it was obvious that construction had not part in its removal. The grave markers such as the ones placed on rods next to the markers for veterans are illegal to sell on ebay. There is the assumption that it was acquired by illegal means.
I say, imprison the bastards.
It's a little ironic that the picture clearly shows the "fine or imprisonment for disturbing this mark" but that seems to have no influence on ebay policy.
I think the assumption by everyone who doesn't understand bench marks is that they must be so old no one would care. What else in our society is considered important and useful if it more than a few years old, or even older than yourself?
Another one to report if a few of you have the time.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/111985697686
Thanks for the notice. It takes only 30 seconds to submit a report. The more that do it, the more likelihood that ebay will finally take notice.
Clicking your link gets this message:
This listing (111985697686) has been removed, or this item is not available.
Hurrah!
Here is another one. Your involvement in reporting this one is appreciated.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-1903-U-S-Brass-Illinois-River-Survey-Marker-Original-Unique-Collectable/371637658709?_trksid=p2050601.c100085.m2372&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140211132617%26meid%3Dc3c7278716904f8aad212c8944e29d0c%26pid%3D100085%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D371637658709%26clkid%3D5686188993788770606&_qi=RTM2247625&apos ;"> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-1903-U-S-Brass-Illinois-River-Survey-Marker-Original-Unique-Collectable/371637658709?_trksid=p2050601.c100085.m2372&_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20140211132617&meid=c3c7278716904f8aad212c8944e29d0c&pid=100085&rk=1&rkt=4&sd=371637658709&clkid=5686188993788770606&_qi=RTM2247625
Went looking for a few different NGS mons today and found out their location had recently been re-done. I went to one that I thought for sure would still be there due to it's location..... Found this.
Maybe it is for sale somewhere too. Here is the link to the NGS Data sheet http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/ds_pid.prl/1