Stuck

MightyMoe, post: 351773, member: 700 wrote: I have a number of these types of odd sections. It just happens that I'm working in four of them now.

This one is interesting cause all the ownership (surface) runs east-west, the south 1/2 is all one owner, the north 1/2 is two owners divided by a highway running ENE-WSW.

north of the south row is a Ranch, south of the south row is a energy company.

Rancher quit claims the NW4NE4, the highway cuts a small portion of the SE corner of the "40", so in effect he is deeding everything north of the south ROW in that "40".

I had never had to determine any N-S lines in the section so kinda figured I was free to do what I wanted, and I came up with this breakdown that isn't "by the book" but is better in terms of fitting patent acreages:

This is how the county GIS shows it. LOL

So I check and find that there are two 40's being the S2NE4 that have BLM minerals, coal but not oil and gas.
They have been resurveying this township for 15 years now, so I call to see if my idea can work,,,,,,,,,,,,
No, they are going the other way,,,,,,,,"by the book"
Leaves me no choice really, so here is what "by the book" looks like:

Quite a difference, there is almost 640' between the two C1/4 corner breakdowns, the top one is a mid point on the E-W line and the bottom is a bearing-bearing intersection ("by the book").

Oh well, gave it a shot

What does the Master Title Plat and Original Survey Plat(s) look like?

Which one more closely resembles the original township plat(s)?

Jinx.

MightyMoe, post: 351773, member: 700 wrote: I have a number of these types of odd sections. It just happens that I'm working in four of them now.

This one is interesting cause all the ownership (surface) runs east-west, the south 1/2 is all one owner, the north 1/2 is two owners divided by a highway running ENE-WSW.

north of the south row is a Ranch, south of the south row is a energy company.

Rancher quit claims the NW4NE4, the highway cuts a small portion of the SE corner of the "40", so in effect he is deeding everything north of the south ROW in that "40".

I had never had to determine any N-S lines in the section so kinda figured I was free to do what I wanted, and I came up with this breakdown that isn't "by the book" but is better in terms of fitting patent acreages:

This is how the county GIS shows it. LOL

So I check and find that there are two 40's being the S2NE4 that have BLM minerals, coal but not oil and gas.
They have been resurveying this township for 15 years now, so I call to see if my idea can work,,,,,,,,,,,,
No, they are going the other way,,,,,,,,"by the book"
Leaves me no choice really, so here is what "by the book" looks like:

Quite a difference, there is almost 640' between the two C1/4 corner breakdowns, the top one is a mid point on the E-W line and the bottom is a bearing-bearing intersection ("by the book").

Oh well, gave it a shot

Mighty:
Seems like I ran into this same senario when, maybe in the same township, operating around the State of Wyoming. Send me the particulars, section, township & range and I'll check my records.

Loyal, post: 351776, member: 228 wrote: What does the Master Title Plat and Original Survey Plat(s) look like?

typical square 5280 section, the master title plat is like No.2, d/c and d/c and coal for the S2NE4

Rankin_File, post: 351777, member: 101 wrote: Which one more closely resembles the original township plat(s)?

That's a tough one, neither really

MightyMoe, post: 351782, member: 700 wrote: typical square 5280 section, the master title plat is like No.2, d/c and d/c and coal for the S2NE4

Mighty,

Did the SAME GUY, survey this entire Section (same survey, day, contract, etc.), OR where there OTHERS involved in creating this mess?

I have seen similar situations created by GLO Deputies running boustrophedonic herringbone subdivisions within the interior of Townships (running North-South "lines" and stubbing East & West, other times running East-West "lines" and stubbing North and South). In any case, IF the "Original" Corners (Monuments) are recovered, then it IS what IT is (which kinda sucks). If you see a systematic pattern in the Township that supports the herringbone theory, then this isn't really anomalous, just SCREWED UP (but still "right")!

Of course if it was a simple "square" Section, then anybody could do it, and it wouldn't be so much FUN.

Loyal

Which Book?

"Section 3-3
(5) The subdivision of the townships into 36 sections by running parallel lines through the township from south to north and from east to west at distances of one mile. The sections are numbered commencing with number 1 in the northeast section of the township, proceeding thence west to section 6, thence south to section 7, thence east to section 12, and so on, alternately, to number 36 in the southeast section."

The upper sketch shows the use of parallel lines.

"3-75. Under the rectangular system the unit of survey is the township of 36 sections. The unit of subdivision is the section of 640 acres. Under the general land laws, broadly, the unit of administration is the quarterquarter section of 40 acres."

Again the upper sketch fulfills the proper subdivision, with the probability of 4 40s in each quarter. The PLSS is an "Equal Area" method, not a "Straight Line" method.

"Partial Irregularity
3-64. Where the south part of the east boundary, or the east part of the south boundary, is regular, and the balance is defective in alinement and not subject to rectification, the subdivisional survey is made regular as far as possible."

This is in fact what the upper sketch does.

Not all Townships are regular and not all sections are regular, the majority of the rules applies only to Regular Townships and Sections.

Paul in non PLSS PA

Loyal, post: 351787, member: 228 wrote: Mighty,

Did the SAME GUY, survey this entire Section (same survey, day, contract, etc.), OR where there OTHERS involved in creating this mess?

I have seen similar situations created by GLO Deputies running boustrophedonic herringbone subdivisions within the interior of Townships (running North-South "lines" and stubbing East & West, other times running East-West "lines" and stubbing North and South). In any case, IF the "Original" Corners (Monuments) are recovered, then it IS what IT is (which kinda sucks). If you see a systematic pattern in the Township that supports the herringbone theory, then this isn't really anomalous, just SCREWED UP (but still "right")!

Of course if it was a simple "square" Section, then anybody could do it, and it wouldn't be so much FUN.

Loyal

Same guy, probably many crews in that township

Paul in PA, post: 351790, member: 236 wrote: Which Book?

"Section 3-3
(5) The subdivision of the townships into 36 sections by running parallel lines through the township from south to north and from east to west at distances of one mile. The sections are numbered commencing with number 1 in the northeast section of the township, proceeding thence west to section 6, thence south to section 7, thence east to section 12, and so on, alternately, to number 36 in the southeast section."

The upper sketch shows the use of parallel lines.

"3-75. Under the rectangular system the unit of survey is the township of 36 sections. The unit of subdivision is the section of 640 acres. Under the general land laws, broadly, the unit of administration is the quarterquarter section of 40 acres."

Again the upper sketch fulfills the proper subdivision, with the probability of 4 40s in each quarter. The PLSS is an "Equal Area" method, not a "Straight Line" method.

"Partial Irregularity
3-64. Where the south part of the east boundary, or the east part of the south boundary, is regular, and the balance is defective in alinement and not subject to rectification, the subdivisional survey is made regular as far as possible."

This is in fact what the upper sketch does.

Not all Townships are regular and not all sections are regular, the majority of the rules applies only to Regular Townships and Sections.

Paul in non PLSS PA

I agree, but not everyone does 🙁

A man ought to do what he thinks is best. -Hondo Lane

Dave Karoly, post: 351793, member: 94 wrote: A man ought to do what he thinks is best. -Hondo Lane

"no man is an island" John Donne

MightyMoe, post: 351794, member: 700 wrote: "no man is an island"

I wonder if anyone has ever named an island Noman.

I have a dormant boundary problem that involves a County Surveyor subdividing a Section for various owners, and for establishing a 1/16th corner which is the corner of a lode claim. The Mineral Survey was done in the 1950s and approved by the Cadastral Engineer. The position of the corner was established partly from what the County Surveyor (Charles Bronson if you can believe it) said was the original south quarter corner. The next County Surveyor (on a private project) reset that quarter section corner at the single proportionate position apparently because he couldn't find Bronson's corner found in the decade before. The BLM did a dependant resurvey of the Section in 1970 and used all four Section corners and three quarter section corners that Bronson said were the corners except the South quarter section corner, they used the new one. This moved the 1/16th corner in question east 10 or 15' into our State Forest.

The BLM agreed to look at it and we even met in the field. Then McCavit retired and that was the last I heard of it. The problem is the west half of the section is generally using the new breakdown and the east half is generally using the old breakdown except for a few BLM monuments. There is nothing of much value there so no one cares that much probably. The BLM interest is a remnant of unpatented public domain.

I never finished the Survey but I'm tempted to accept Bronson's monument because it harmonizes with everything else over there and call BLM's monument off, maybe that's improper, but who is going to argue?

This is another one, it was long ago broken up before I got there, the fences were laid out "by the book" and closely follow a classic 1/4 to 1/4 center point position, not a lot of choice how to break it down, it would better fit if a mid point from the north and south 1/4 was established but that isn't possible now:

Jim Frame, post: 351801, member: 10 wrote: I wonder if anyone has ever named an island Noman.

Might Moe,

An irregular section, they used the wrong method to set the center but after that a correct method was used to subdivide for the 40s.

Oh well.

Paul in PA

Paul in PA, post: 351813, member: 236 wrote: Might Moe,

An irregular section, they used the wrong method to set the center but after that a correct method was used to subdivide for the 40s.

Oh well.

Paul in PA

For most of them I have a history I'm stuck with. The first one was unusual because it was "clean". But still the BLM will not relent, however, they are giving up a lot of coal, so my clients will gain coal, but one will lose surface cause of the deed.

The coal value swamps the surface value so ...........