Still Pondering the One Lot in Two States Situation

> The concept of having a single lot being in two completely different jurisdictions brings on all sorts of questions outside of the surveying issue.

Here's my comments based on Virginia / West Virginia or different counties / cities - with my home state being in Virginia. We run into multi-jurisdictional situations on a regular basis.

First off, to cross state lines as a surveyor you need to be licensed in both states.
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> If you own the lot and sell it, do you file identical deeds in both States?

Yes - subject to the fact that the deed must meet legal requirements of each state. This would also apply when you cross county lines or even an independant city within a county when they have different Clerk's offices.
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> How do the County Appraisers separate the land value for proper tax liability?

Most of the time they value based on what is in their jurisdiction. Sometimes counties (for small parcels) will appraise & tax based on where the improvements are.
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> So what do you do if you don't pay taxes on the house in one State, but, do pay the taxes on the lawn in a different State? You would then own a landlocked parcel with very little value to anyone except the new owner of the house.

As I commented, the jurisdictions generally find a way to work these issues out.
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> Does your home insurance company need to be licensed to operate in both States?

Don't know. Probably safest to stick with a company that is licensed in both states.
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> Your house is in North Carolina and your pool is in South Carolina, but, only accessible via North Carolina. A near drowning occurs. Which emergency service should respond to your 911 call?

Generally the emergency services work out their territories because of accessibility issues. I know there are lots of places that you can't get into a jurisdiction without going into another first.

Yes, Vaca Santa, I also feel that we didn't completely plumb the depths of this issue. Obviously, from the responses given, this is by no means an unheard of event.

But it just doesn't make any sense to me. I think that there are only two possibilities: a)either there are two lots or b)the state line jogs around the subdivision and accomodates it. I clearly understand that not all state lines are mathmatically straight lines, and traverse across the land from monument to monument. But that's not the case here. Here is where an earlier grant went along a branch (or creek in some parts of the country). So it's not a case of "retracement missed the line"; there never was a chance for the two lines to be coincident.

A couple of people remarked that often land grants preceded state lines and that the creation of a state line doesn't extinguish property rights. Granted... but it may well split them in two.

I also surmise that maybe the reason that there appears to be lots that straddle county or state lines is that no one in the jusrisdiction being crossed into cares enough to do anything about it. But when oil is struck or when a Walmart is going to be built someone will probably start caring and in a hurry. That pretty much sums up what is happening in Georgia's Bibb County vs. Monroe County dispute.

IMHO, anyway,

Stephen

As to the state line issue, remember that West Virginia came out of Virginia fairly recently so having parcels straddle the state line is not unusual.

As to parcels crossing county lines, take for example Augusta County, Virginia, created about 1736. When it was created it included all of western Virginia, all of West Virginia, all of KY, OH, IN, IL, WI & MI. etc etc.

In Virginia & West Virginia & KY, counties were created as population grew and many times the county lines were drawn in an arbitrary manner and the county lines went through numerous parcels.

In Virginia as cities were created and became independant of counties, they also had arbitray lines that split parcels.

So in my part of the world it is a very common occurance.

I can't understand why one would need to be licensed in both States. When jurisdictional lines go through a parcel the general rule is that one is a resident of the jurisdiction in which their bed is located. If the consumer is living in your State (sleeps in it) then as a licensed professional in his/her State you should have the right to offer your services. Said consumer must vote in the jurisdiction they are a resident of (where they sleep).

If the other jurisdiction has a problem with it, tell them you think the State line may be elsewhere and it could involve a costly lawsuit, hah!

Really, what would be the point in making an issue over something like this? Licensing is supposed to be to protect the public, not to protect economic turf. I for one, deplore this move toward economic protection of licensees that the licensing process has become. I think it's unethical and a driving factor in the movement against all regulation of any kind. It's become impossible to get anything done.

Real life example. I was the primary surveyor in a large development in Chattanooga, Council Fire, a high dollar golf development. 1/4 acre lots started at $250,000. They had big name architects, golf course designers involved, so layout, other than minor changes, was out of my hands. The developers purchased large tracts on both sides of the TN/GA state line. Laid out golf course and roads, ignoring the state line. We ended up with a long state line running throught the development, several thousand feet, maybe a mile. Nearly every lot along the state line (most were in the 1/4 to 1/2 acre range, had some portion in both states. I do remember that there were a lot of issues, in most cases you would have to have multiple building permits, double of everything. Lot of house stradling the line. In streets we would have multiple utilities from two different providers or jurisdictions. If I remember right, where you went to school, voted, etc. was based on where you slept, where your bedroom was. I think the school districts have been flexible with this. It is important in that if you live in TN, no income taxes, GA does have a state income tax. Jury duty...benefits, the list goes on and on. I thought it was a bad idea, but a lot of buyers think it cool. I might find some pictures later. Determining the state line location was not easy and honestly, sort of floated in.

Monuments and occupation in good faith, rule, put a jog in the State Line and move on.
😉 jud

I will see if this will work. There are lots primarily in GA not shown on this map, all the land to the south is platted. Bottom of picture is state line.

The line was not as long nor houses built across the line as memory served me from 20+ years ago, but there are more than what is shown here.

More from Google

> The developers purchased large tracts on both sides of the TN/GA state line. Laid out golf course and roads, ignoring the state line. .... Nearly every lot along the state line (most were in the 1/4 to 1/2 acre range, had some portion in both states.

So they bought a tract in Georgia and a tract in TN. Then they made one big subdivision complete with golf course and lots. The lots pay no attention to the state line. Wouldn't they have had to do a combination plat in order to accomplish that?

Stephen

not sure what you mean by combination plat. The plats, some of which I drew, when a lot crossed a state line, two plats were file, one in TN and one in Ga approved by both planning commission, probably with variances, and showed the entire lot in question on both plats and owner would have recieved deeds in both states referring to Lot X, Plat Book X recorded in their prospective states and possibly crossing referencing the plat in the other county.

Note the owners in GA can only access their property by driving through TN, this also causes a problem for busses, access by state vehicles, any number of things. If you call the police...who comes. But, things like this keep life interesting.

Sometimes called a recombination plat. You have to extinguish existing property lines before you make new ones that criss cross the old lines. It is the oppposite of a subdivision plat. Are they not required in TN?

Stephen

I'm sure that could vary by location, but in my area we simply show the old lot lines in a dashed line-type on the same plat that we prepare to create the new lot lines.

A state line, would only be sort of a quasi property line. I have seen and surveyed descriptions that crossed the state line and did not really acknowledge it. Sort of like property in two counties, which we also see, or part in county, part in city. Or in Alabama, properties that cross section lines and pretty much ignore them. All of which I have seen. I just imagine they got variances for building etc.