Spectra Precision Epoch 50 receiver

Not to change the subject, but what kind of receivers are you upgrading from? Just curious as to why someone would upgrade now instead of waiting a few (or 5) years for Galileo, Compass and a full Glonass and GPS L5 constellation to come online.

I'm probably not going to be helpful either...but could you ask the salesman if an Epoch 50 is the same thing as a Trimble R8. I have a few R8's, and could use a couple more. I was told the Epoch 50 with a Ranger data collector goes for something like $14,000-15,000. Is that true?
If the only difference is the color, I'll start buying these things instead.

upgrading from Legacy-H GD(L1 L2 tracking GPS only) The Epoch 50 (dont know the origin of 50) tracks GPS L1,L2,L2C AND L5 and tracks GLONASS L1,L2

My salesman quoted the receivers as $15k not with data controller. To get it financed requires 10% down so $12.5K over 24 months. Problem is do I want to feel the pain for 2 years or continue with my old Topcon Legacy H receivers which right now are really slow due to the moisture and humidity here in Iowa. Hows the weather in Pa.?

Thanks

If I liked the Epoch 50 and I didn't really need one now, I'd be tempted to wait a few months until the Trimble acquisition of Ashtech is complete.

The initial press releases back in the spring said that Trimble was going to use the Ashtech acquisition to expand it's Spectra Precision brand, so they're probably going to have some eliminate some receivers that overlap in the market. I can't see Trimble spending all that money for a company that just introduced a redesigned entire GPS product line, then not integrating that product into their distribution channel. (But I have been wrong before, my wife is more than willing to verify that fact.)

James,

so what you're saying is that Spectra Precision is the "poor man's" Trimble and that the product line will change with the Ashtech merger. Can that be a good thing when Topcon and Trimble are buying up all the competition? I am concerned there could be a price spike after Ashtech goes down. Your thoughts.

> My salesman quoted the receivers as $15k not with data controller. To get it financed requires 10% down so $12.5K over 24 months. Problem is do I want to feel the pain for 2 years or continue with my old Topcon Legacy H receivers which right now are really slow due to the moisture and humidity here in Iowa. Hows the weather in Pa.?
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> Thanks

Weather's great...a little warm, but you won't hear complaining from me...We worked when it was -19 earlier this year. A quick mental flashback cures all complaints.

I think with the technological equipment we buy, there will always be reasons to wait (Galileo, Light-squared, etc.). If you do decide now's the time to purchase, I don't think you'll be disappointed...especially switching from a back-pack "GPS-Only" unit with wires. Believe me...it is so much easier w/o those damn wires. And with the added birds, you'll be amazed where you get a fix.

If money is an issue, you might also want to research the Javad Triumph. They're very affordable (9 G's last I checked), and work better than any receiver I've ever used (including the Trimble R8 Model 3). I have 5 of the Triumphs.
The reason(s) we run Trimble too, is because it works better on the local Trimble VRS network (Keynet here in PA), and also integrates seamlessly with our favorite robot...the Trimble S6. Plus my Trimble rep is a good egg.

Let me know how you make out.

Not meaning to start a brand "a" vs. brand "b" discussion, but when considering a purchase this major I like to look at all options available. I have never owned anything made by Javad, but you know that dude know his stuff.

Another $0.02 just about every survey equipment sales person that I have ever met might have just as well been a used car salesman. They didn't know and didn't care, just wanted your signature. They are not all like this (Greg Perkins with Leica is the best I ever met).

caveat emptor

They are not all like this (Greg Perkins with Leica is the best I ever met).
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Greg Perkins is not the only one. Bill Murphy, John Essig, Henri Ayers, Ellis Veatch, etc. all heavy hitters

At least two on your list are not primarily sales guys at Leica (past tense for Ellis since he passed away a year or so ago), BUT instead the top of the heap for support at Leica, probably ALL brands have some of these guys, I think the original comment was a pretty broad brush at the sales force. I do tend to agree that quite a few in sales are woefully inadequate on their product knowledge and not just survey equipment either, how many car sales folks have you ever dealt with that truly knew their product? The best defense against this is knowing more than the sales guy BEFORE purchasing (which in most cases is a pretty easy goal to obtain), I have had sales folks flat out lie if they thought they could say something to make the sale, knowledge is powerful, I just walk away from those guys, NO MATTER how good of price they might have, deceptive sales tactics kills the sale every time for me.

SHG

ditto

Just got back from using an Epoch 50 system for the first time. 5 Weeks in the field on a project spanning more than 160kms.

My thoughts on the Epoch 50?

Utter rubbish!!!:-(

Having used Leica, Trimble and Astech GPS units over the past 19 years, the Epochs were just awful.

The only good thing about them was their accuracy, could not fault that.

Why so bad?
Poor radio range (we had to import a Trimble radio to pick up the range).
Poor under tree canopy performance. A Sokkia GPS on site could provide positions where this gear could not.
Intermittent faults (loss of GPS connection, Loss of data from GPS several times a day,mysterious radio modem shut down, batteries not charging )
Very poor software on controller (Survey Pro - I nicknamed it Survey Amateur).
Absolutely no coding ability (cost us a whole heap of time manually working the coding to suit our made for Trimble systems)

The units performed so badly I have advised the owner to sell the gear and purchase Trimble again so he can continue to work on these projects.

I refuse to use the units again having lost a lot of time and money during this project because of these Epochs failing.

The owner is not very happy - he was sold the Epochs on the condition they were compatible to Trimble systems. They are most certainly not, especially the feature coding debacle which Spectra has known about for more than 2 years and not fixed(yes I have seen the emails from unhappy clients from 2009).

If you have a small company and only use GPS for small scale projects and only a few days a month, The Epochs would be ideal. As an everyday professional grade machine, they fail miserably.

NFA

thanks for the heads up! what is your opinion of the new topcon hyper. it looks like a dup of the trimble r8. I am thinking now just investing on used R8's but would have to switch software from Survey Pro to TSC

I haven't used the new Topcon unit - not much help there, sorry.

Personally, I'd go for the used R8's at least you have access to one of the market leaders in GPS and their systems.

Depending on how advanced your coding and attributes system is you may find the switch a bit difficult. There is no way of converting FEA coding into FXL format for the Trimble systems. You will have to reconstruct the coding system.

That was one of the biggest issues we have with the Epochs. Survey Pro, provided with the Epoch Ranger controller does not communicate with Spectra Precision Office software in regards to feature coding. The Spectra office uses the Trimble feature coding system module. Incredible that a manufacturer has equipment that doesn't talk with the manufacturer's own software!

I used to think, what difference could there be between the leaders and the rest in regard to GPS? Having had to use one of "the rest" I was astonished what corners had been cut and all the rough edges that still exist. On big projects the little bugs just kept pilling on top of each other, creating distractions and frustration.

NFA

Have to add an edit to the above post.

In relation to my point about the accuracy being good.

Well now we have started to QA the collected data, we are finding points where the equipment has stored data with large errors. The QA on the stored baselines indicates no problems, but there most certainly are.

One set of points I believe has had a bad solution that held for a short while. In other points it looks to me like the receiver has lost the solution and begun to output float positions yet the controller has logged them as fixed with good QA. The magnitude of the errors as not within the realm of a fixed solution.

I'm guessing there could be a delay between the receiver and controller in terms of the QA, possibly an integration issue with pushing the envelope too far.

So no - I cannot say the units are accurate either.

I'd avoid them like the plague for larger projects and heavy workloads.

Thanks for the update. I have decided to withhold any purchase of receivers until after this Light Square thing gets resolved. I will probably purchase used R8's for my receivers.