I've been researching a lot about different brands of equipment. We're thinking about trying something different after the first of the year. You can find scads of material and anecdotes for/against Leica/Trimble GNSS robots, etc. (and Javad). After finding out that Spectra SP80s and 60s and sort of dark horse candidates for some of the best receivers on the market, it is making me wonder if the Foucs 35 robots are as good as the S5s, TS15s, etc.
Anyone that have one care to weigh in?
Plumb Bill, post: 399981, member: 226 wrote: I've been researching a lot about different brands of equipment. We're thinking about trying something different after the first of the year. You can find scads of material and anecdotes for/against Leica/Trimble GNSS robots, etc. (and Javad). After finding out that Spectra SP80s and 60s and sort of dark horse candidates for some of the best receivers on the market, it is making me wonder if the Foucs 35 robots are as good as the S5s, TS15s, etc.
Anyone that have one care to weigh in?
I had a 30. Now I have a 35. I also have an S7.
Love my S7 now but I loved my focuses. For me they were work horses. My 30 met it's fate when I dropped it on a flagstone patio.
Obviously the focus doesn't have the active tracking so it doesn't lock as good as the s7. But the active is not THAT much better. The biggest difference is the passive will get 'interference' from shiny things behind the prism such as car mirrors, glare off metals, or glare of large bodies of water (like an ocean or large lake) the active track does block this. The passive still will work here, just you have to be mindful of it so you make sure it's still tracking and that it's locked on you taking an important shot and not locked getting a reading from glare in a window 100' behind you. This would be true for all passive robots, not just the focuses.
The search function is not as fast, but does the job. If you are searching farther than 75 feet away, it doesn't even make a difference bc the line of sight is so small it just snaps to you
Love survey pro software on the collector. I'm a fan. Super easy and basic for surveying functions.
All in all, I worked with my focus for years. My 2nd crew uses it daily now while I have my s7.
Will I be getting a 2nd S7 next time? I haven't decided. Maybe. Maybe not. I may just get another focus as I love my s7 but the difference between the 2 doesn't facilitate the extra 15-20k in price. It just doesn't.
A place I worked for bought four Focus 30's over a 2 year period. Two of them crapped out in the first week of service and had to be sent back to the factory. So I'm a little concerned about build quality (as I am with the SP80s the same firm bought). I suspect that the low purchase price may be offset by a relatively brief service life. They have only been around for a few years so we can't really say.
When they work they work just fine. I agree with what Rich said. The data they return is to spec.
I tested a few passive robots in the past few years and I found that they do not track anything but the prism. I'm surprised that the Focus does. Maybe the 35 is better? Sokkia RX, Topcon IS and Leica 1200 (which are all pretty long in the tooth now) all tracked only the glass even in parking lots and around reflectors. My old Topcon 8200 would get sidetracked by the sun reflecting off of a lake or even leaves sometimes when the sun was high. It did have a setting for tracking sensitivity which made a difference. But I was really pleasantly surprised that the newer crop of robots did so well at discriminating against reflective surfaces that weren't the prism and of course could search and acquire in just a few short seconds (Leica Power Search or for Topcon/Sokkia the infrared dog whistle).
Shawn Billings, post: 400020, member: 6521 wrote: I tested a few passive robots in the past few years and I found that they do not track anything but the prism
My Topcon PS - a new model - will pick up the reflection of the prism in a window from time to time.
Mark Mayer, post: 400023, member: 424 wrote: My Topcon PS - a new model - will pick up the reflection of the prism in a window from time to time.
I could see that happening. I think the way they've improved the interrogation of potential targets is for software to look at the shape of the image to determine if it looks like a prism. If it doesn't, it's ignored. But a reflection of a prism would look like a prism to the robot camera.
Doesn't happen often. But it can happen. Just something to be alert of in certain situations
To be clear. I never reviewed a Spectra Robot. When I did my reviews, I'd try to go to a busy parking lot (such as Wal-Mart or a large grocery store) and see if I could get it to lock onto any shiny chrome or reflectors. If my memory serves correctly the early IS would pause over some objects but ultimately reject them. The Sokkia SRX wouldn't even pause. I think I actually reviewed two IS's, I don't remember the versions. The second was much more robust.
I only mention this because, while I see the validity of active tracking, I think that the robots have become sophisticated enough to not really need it. I'm not crazy about the big RC4 that Topcon/Sokkia use, but the idea is really good and works very well. Then there is Leica that doesn't even need the dog whistle. That power search is incredible. In the case of Mark's window reflection, I believe that even active tracking could be tripped up by that scenario.
I've seen passive robots track the reflection of the prism in a window, and when I was in sales I pulled up to demo an S6 to a customer who was in the process of taking 135 shots in a row to a taillight. So yes you do have to be careful about what you're tracking, especially if you're wearing a reflective vest - those are the worst because it looks like the gun is tracking the prism. I like to raise the prism up a couple feet and make sure the vertical angle changes accordingly. Once it's locked onto the prism it's not likely that it will go chase anything else.
To me the decision whether to go with a Spectra robot would be based on whether or not I wanted to use Survey Pro... I prefer Access so I'd go with an S7 or S5. But of course, now the SX10 is out, that thing might be a game changer.
I like the Geomax / Carlson combo. You can run an SP80 with Carlson, and the Geomax really seems to be just as good as Leica.
I think one of the tricks to owning any robot is to keep them under factory warranty as long as they are an integral part of your practice. Robots have a lot of moving parts, complicated electronics and suffer from alignment woes. Compared to GPS receivers which have no moving parts and little to fail, a modern robot is box of snakes.
The Focus 35's come with a 2-year warranty. In my experience the factory warranty is excellent, as is the factory service. (The factory service is so good that most dealers defer to the factory for repairs.)
So when you purchase a robot, ask about bundling an extra two years of factory warranty in with the initial purchase. In the case of the Focus 35, you can purchase 1-year extensions for the robot AND the data collector for $1280 per year (MSRP). This includes software maintenance on SurveyPro too!
I believe that if you bundle two additional years of warranty (so four years total) with the initial purchase, the additional factory coverage might be discounted to $2175. Coupled with a good named equipment insurance policy this means that you won't have to worry about your robot for 4-years. (Make sure that your dealer will supply a loaner at no charge if your gun is in the shop.)
If you were to put the entire purchase on the Spectra Precision factory 10-24 payment plan, you are going to pay an additional $82 per month for two years. The gun will be fully covered while you are paying for it and 2-years after the last payment. Can anyone argue that $41 per month is unreasonable for the piece of mind that you get?
From the equipment dealer's perspective:: After 3 1/2 years, you should purchase a new robot, sell your old gun and data collector; which are still under factory warranty; and start the process over again. Since the old robot will still be under factory warranty, the used equipment purchaser will (probably) be able to extend the warranty for another year for reasonable price. (You might need to have the original purchaser do the extension...)
From the thrifty surveyor perspective:: After 4 years you should evaluate the new wiz-bang robot (yes there are going to be a few bombshells dropped next year) or just extend your existing warranty for another $1200 (again for the gun and data collector) and get another great worry free year out of a 5-year old robot.
I drive a 21-year old F250 with 240,000 miles on it so you can probably guess what I would personally do.
Also, if you purchase a Focus 35 and it fails in the initial 30-days after delivery you should demand that it be replaced not repaired. The factory has a program called 'Advanced Replacement' to take care of this. Your dealer won't have much skin in taking care of you properly.
I know that Focus 35 robots get discounted substantially because the dealers can sell anywhere in the nation (I have to fight this constantly). There are a few big dealers out there who put a lot of pressure on this ecosystem. I won't put the discount percentage in writing here because I don't want to feed that fire, but trust me: I know what the number is. This national competitive discount makes the F35 a VERY competitive product when compared with other devices that are always sold at list price. Reasonably priced Factory Warranty extensions make the true cost of ownership for an F35 amazing.
Disclosure (per Shawn Nate's example): having said all of this, please remember that I do have a pony running in this race.
We've had a Focus30 for a bit over 3 years now. Never had as problem with the instrument itself but the Ranger3 has been sent back twice. Once because the internal radio fried and the second because the charging port shorted out. It tracks well and shoots very fast, great topo gun but I will always take one of our Sokikia's (DX & SX) out because the PR remote is just the best at getting lock back, especially in the woods. Plus, the Sokkia allows interface with the gun even when the collector is connected, allows 0 sets, distance shots ect, the Focus screen goes blank so the Sokkia is also my construction gun of choice.
Mark Mayer, post: 400010, member: 424 wrote: A place I worked for bought four Focus 30's over a 2 year period. Two of them crapped out in the first week of service and had to be sent back to the factory. So I'm a little concerned about build quality ...
At the PLSO Conference in January my former coworkers told me that the dealer was taking back the Focus 30's and replacing them with Topcons (which the dealer also carries). Apparently the reliability issues could not be resolved.
Luke J. Crawford, post: 419204, member: 11382 wrote: ....I will always take one of our Sokikia's (DX & SX) out because the PR remote is just the best at getting lock back...
I am currently using a Topcon PS which uses the same Remote search thingy as the Sokkias. Sure, it's great at finding you when lock is lost. Which seems to be every f___ing shot.
Mark Mayer, post: 419217, member: 424 wrote: I am currently using a Topcon PS which uses the same Remote search thingy as the Sokkias. Sure, it's great at finding you when lock is lost. Which seems to be every f___ing shot.
Lots of settings in the gun, I had same issue at 1st until I got it all figured right. I can stand 20' away and twirl rod like baton and it says locked without fail.
Are we still discussing the Focus?
Luke J. Crawford, post: 419221, member: 11382 wrote: I can stand 20' away and twirl rod like baton and it says locked without fail.
Maybe I better get this thing into the dealer because the way it is it can't stay locked worth a sh__ when closer than 50 feet.
Mark Mayer, post: 419225, member: 424 wrote: Maybe I better get this thing into the dealer because the way it is it can't stay locked worth a sh__ when closer than 50 feet.
I'd say so, we've bought 3 consecutive Sokkia's just because the are so good with passive lock compared to the others. I will say, our MS60 may be a tad better but not if you compare it $ wise.
Luke J. Crawford, post: 419221, member: 11382 wrote: Lots of settings in the gun, I had same issue at 1st until I got it all figured right. I can stand 20' away and twirl rod like baton and it says locked without fail.
Would you care to share those settings?
