I was in the field last week (a real treat for me lately, other than site visits) and as I was walking back towards the instrument from the backsight, an older gentleman yells at me. We were working in an urban environment, many small lots with large houses crammed on them. He tells me that he has two pins at one of his corners and wanted to know which one was his property corner. I walk to the corner with him and sure enough, there are two pins there; one was an old 1" iron pipe at the corner of a block wall (still had pieces of old flagging on it) and about 0.7' away was a shiny new rebar, with no cap (required in that state). He says that the pipe has been the corner for as long as he can remember. Now, with the "new property corner", his a/c unit is over on his neighbor's property. Can you imagine why anyone would want to have their property surveyed if this is what they can expect?
No, I can't.
The deed staker set the new shiny monument and went home happy and does not have a clue on what he accomplished.
> a shiny new rebar, with no cap (required in that state).
So does your state require a record of survey to go along with a capped rebar? Is there a record of survey?
If the answer is no, is the rebar even a valid corner?
Not trying to be flamed here, but could the old neighbor feel free to disappear the offending 5/8" diameter piece of ribbed metal set vertically in the ground signifying nothing?
I would have removed the new shiny pin and then I would have wired a note & my business card to the pipe asking mr. surveyor to call me. -BTW- I've done that before
If there is no cap AND no Record of Survey, who knows who placed it there... neighbor, concrete contractor, surveyor???? I probably wouldn't pull it, but I'd call out "origin unknown" on my ROS.
> I would have removed the new shiny pin and then I would have wired a note & my business card to the pipe asking mr. surveyor to call me. -BTW- I've done that before
I've never pulled one, but have driven them to 6" or so below grade. Then note that on my survey. The card is a courtesy gesture that may help, which I have also done.
This debate has gone on forever. It had been going on forever when I was a newbie PC. I'm sure it will go on much longer. In 'my day' RLSs didn't allow PCs to 'set pins' in the field so they could come back in the evening to brag of how they saved the boss's company another trip back to the site. Most PCs were not so good as to know how to do those kind of things properly. And, if they were, they had better know how to back up those decisions with the proper raw data that the RLS could live with. Nowadays, it could very well be that there are a lot of RLSs out there who weigh the cost of gas to go back to the site and 'fix' what the PC did, or to hold a pin based on enough evidence, against 'letting it ride' until 'the problem' arises and deal with it then. I don't know, anymore. I do my own field work and calcs. You'll not find me in a situation the OP has described. I'm not better than anyone else, but causing problems for people when they aren't aware of them till after the fact just burns my arse.
Mr. Reynolds has a good point. Is there nothing there calling it a property corner? Otherwise maybe it's a random new shiney piece of metal that makes everything more confusing. Did some tech who thinks he knows what he is doing set it without being licensed? I think some research should be done.
I would want it pulled, but on second thought, did the neighbor pay to have it set? If he is already on notice that is his corner, the poor guy has a problem.
In answer to the original question....no I don't think I would want a survey done if I thought it was only going to cause havoc when I am already at peace.
> If there is no cap AND no Record of Survey, who knows who placed it there... neighbor, concrete contractor, surveyor???? I probably wouldn't pull it, but I'd call out "origin unknown" on my ROS.
The gentleman I spoke with said that the pin was set by a surveyor after performing a survey of the neighbor's property. I was not surveying his nor any adjoining properties so I just answered some questions and went on my way.
> Can you imagine why anyone would want to have their property surveyed if this is what they can expect?
I certainly can.
I could not count the number of times one neighbor has told me that a particular object was "always thought to be the corner" (at least by him). Then you find the actual called for original monument two feet away. Further, I have found many times that the piece of metal "always thought to be the corner" was put in place about where the prior owner remembered it being before the driveway/retaining wall/drainage swale was built and the "corner" (wooden witness stake) got knocked out.
So if I was the guys neighbor, I would certainly want a survey to verify the location.
It appears what is missing for the fellow you talked to is - if the new marker was set by a surveyor, there should have been plenty of communication (both before and after the boundary determination) with the guy to let him know all of the details that were found.
Edit to add:
About a month and a half ago, I conducted a survey of a couple of lots. ALL of the markers were found in place and checked within the rest of the lots in the block very well. A small section of fence (15-20 feet in length) was within about 5 feet of the line and the people who placed it knew it was that far off the line. The neighbor - much later on the scene and absentee owner - "always thought" the section of white PVC fence was on the line and had a new pad and HVAC put in that actually crosses the boundary line. Could have been avoided with a survey.
I personally would've asked the gentleman for a copy of his survey,(if he had one handy), that might show the location of this IP before commenting on anything.I also probably would've tied it in,as well as the shiny new re-bar and gave him a company business card.Even though they weren't relative to my survey,(yet you were close enough for him to call you),so that later on when this situation arises,(when either a property sells or new fence going up ect...),he might call and request a survey.Oh...you didn't mention how old the A/C unit was,nor the gentleman.:-)
I'm not sure what the intention of your survey was for, but there was a time when crews used to spend alot of time re-tracing evidence so that situations like this would rarely happen when you get 2 companies,(let's hope it wasn't the same company), putting IP's and re-bars in 0.70' away from each other.Everything nowadays,(not in all cases), seems so slap-happy,get it done, we have no time in the budget attitude.
Just my $0.02.....which with inflation isn't even worth that these days 🙂
VC ~ this is a hijack ~ sorry
You tease:
Is this really where you live?
VC ~ this is a hijack ~ sorry
Good morning Brad.
Yes,it is where we live for this month 🙂
Very nice City Marina,w/brand new facilities.
VC ~ this is a hijack ~ sorry
nice