On Saturday I went to Marietta and did a small lot survey for a Mechanical Engineer. He has been having a small issue with the neighbor claiming that the fence is 2 feet onto his property. Meaning the fence is 2 feet onto the neighbors property. The neighbor was claiming that an attorney told him that fences are supposed to be offset 2 feet onto the property.
Anyway after surveying the lot I found as I suspected that the fence is directly on the line,?ÿAnd this is where the massive confusion came into the scene.
The client and his wife wanted me to stake the line and I told them I would have to put offset stakes to the line because the fence is directly on the line. Oh.....I gotta tell you they could not grasp the idea of an offset. Try as I might they could not get their head around the idea of placing a offset stake 2 feet from the line to represent the line. I must have used a half dozen different ways or examples to get them to try to understand that the existing rotten fence is directly over the line and I cannot put a stake online because of it BUT I can offset it.
Nope Nope Nope, we are not gonna give up 2 feet.
Phew....I give up.
I used several different examples and scenarios to get them to try and understand an offset to no avail. And I thought mechanical injunears were smarter than lowly "sirvayers".
Even if the client understood it, the neighbor would claim to the staked line if that benefitted him.
The only way you might succeed would be to stake 2 ft each side and tell them the line is halfway between.
But if the fence is on the line, why do they need stakes?
Tie flagging to posts along the fence and put the knot on line.
Make an X with marker on side of post that is on line.
Drive tac or nail on top of post on line.
I walked off a job one day and have not returned because the guy could not understand that 2 1/2 acrers of his 6 acres was taken by the State of Texas to build the highway in front of his ranchette. I was showing him drawings and deeds to prove it. He got another surveyor and had him to mark off his 6 acres and went 2 1/2 acres into government land. Then he called a third surveyor trying to fight the government. That surveyor's helper ask me about it. My answer, your client is "insane".
Some people.........
?ÿ
Bill, He wanted the stakes simply to show the neighbor and he could not seem to grasp that I could not put the stakes on the line. He kept asking me to put the stakes as close as I could to the fence and then bring the neighbor over to point at the stakes. But even if I did that the stakes would be a couple of inches off the actual line.?ÿ
So we came to a compromise of sorts and called the neighbor over and he seemed satisfied. We talked and explained to him not to trust lawyers about surveying matters.
That 12 acre job wore me out more than a 40 acre job has.
Bill, He wanted the stakes simply to show the neighbor and he could not seem to grasp that I could not put the stakes on the line. He kept asking me to put the stakes as close as I could to the fence and then bring the neighbor over to point at the stakes. But even if I did that the stakes would be a couple of inches off the actual line.?ÿ
So we came to a compromise of sorts and called the neighbor over and he seemed satisfied. We talked and explained to him not to trust lawyers about surveying matters.
That 12 acre job wore me out more than a 40 acre job has.
You did your job. Well done! ??ÿ
I think that we often underrate how difficult these concepts, which we consider completely obvious, are for the general public to understand.
I recall trying to explain to my Dad why he should put a 2% crossfall into the slab of the horse barn he was building. In the end, he consented to it only because his son was insisting that he do it, not because he understood it. I doubt that anyone else would have had a chance.?ÿ ?ÿ?ÿ
Dear Just,?ÿ
DONT USE OFFSETS IN THIS CASE?ÿ
What I have done in these cases, is set a projection point out front. (maybe even two of them)?ÿ perhaps a drill hole in the sidewalk and a nail in the street.?ÿ?ÿ
Then I measure to the clients building walls, neighbors building walls, or any planimetric?ÿ feature.?ÿ ?ÿThen I Create a plat entitled "Encroachment Exhibit showing the fence location and ties to the features. I also measure and show opposite lot lines if the lots are small.?ÿ The client can use this exhibit to show their attorney and possibly the neighbors attorney.?ÿ?ÿ
Is there a statute of fence offsets in you community ??ÿ ?ÿI think in this case of neighbor disagreement, its best to show evidence found and let the mediators sort it all out.?ÿ ?ÿ ?ÿ ?ÿ ?ÿ?ÿ
Placing Offset stakes can be misinterpreted by Owners, Lawyers and even Judges?ÿ I have seen this in court.?ÿ ?ÿNip this in the bud early on by just showing evidence.?ÿ ?ÿA little extra work to show clarity is far better than being hauled into court to testify your actions and explain surveying to authorities that often don't have full understanding of land law.?ÿ?ÿ
Just my two cents worth.?ÿ ?ÿ?ÿ
The last private boundary I did was a simple lot survey (recent subdivision, everything I tied hit within less than a tenth except the one rebar pulled and re-stuck in fence post concrete, it was half a foot off).?ÿ The client was either electrical or mechanical engineer, a PE, don't remember.?ÿ He couldn't grasp the concept of station and offset which I learned in High School from my Dad (a Civil Engineer).?ÿ I had set line points with stations and was going to give him the station-offset printout.?ÿ I gave him a drawing showing each line point and how far over to the fence.?ÿ The "issue" was the neighbor built the fence way off, onto himself.?ÿ Client wanted to move the fence onto the line.?ÿ Opposite of what we are used to, the guy was scrupulously honest.?ÿ Trying to convince the neighbor he was giving up about 15' of ground on a smallish lot.
I suspect mechanicals and electricals are good at calculus, abstract math, not geometry.?ÿ Civils and surveyors are more spatially intelligent so we are better at Geometry and trigonometry.?ÿ Some guy can do the most complex, difficult and hairy calculus problem but can't grasp a simple straight line ha ha, too simple.
One time we set a bunch of line laths very close together on a State Park boundary.?ÿ Met out there with the Deputy Attorney General (affectionally known as the DAG), she asks us, where is the boundary, over there at the line of stakes, oh I see that, walk five feet (I'm not kidding), now where's the boundary? LOL still over there at the line of stakes.?ÿ Some people can't even imagine a straight line.
It's why I will never set a witness corner on the intersection line ever again
Had an argument in the field with a Forester.?ÿ He had flagged his timber harvest boundary up to the RM.?ÿ I said but see the big arrow on the cap? the corner is over there.?ÿ but that big shiny monument is the corner.?ÿ No it's over there a foot down in the edge of the gravel road.?ÿ There is another RM just like it on top of the road bank also with a big arrow pointing at the corner.