So, what do I do now?

Tell im to either file it, or remove his markers!

🙂

🙂

N

I don't get why he would jeopardize his license by not spending a couple of hours drafting a Corner Record. I'm getting less and less prone to Corner Records, though, because as simple and straightforward as some boundary jobs seem at first, there's usually something that comes up that gets close to or over the line into Record of Survey territory. But then, as you have seen, our control is pretty haphazard compared to what you have available down South, in general.

If the state board got involved, I don't know which would end up hanging the guy from the tallest tree, failure to file or removal of his monuments.

Just because you've known him for 33 years is irrelevant to the topic. I had a conversation with a survey many years my senior about a month ago about how his field notes didn't close (he left out a call on his letterhead with his seal) and how his map purported to have set iron rods, which he didn't.

I got some lame song and dance about it. I wrote him a letter (which came back and I used his address on his map) outlining his violations and that next time I saw them, I would turn it all into the board.

Obviously he didn't get the letter, but I got it back in the file. I won't hesitate to turn him in.

I'm all for calling the guy and saying "Hey, you effed up. Please fix it." Just like I would like to be afforded the opportunity to fix it. If they don't wear them out.

About two years ago I called a surveyor and told him a senior original corner he'd just set was off by 6' and that I found it while doing some construction layout. He said that he was the original surveyor and I had to use his corner. I said "Okay, fine, but what should I do about the fact that the plat is of record, the corner doesn't meet MTS and you're not wanting to fix it? Who should I call about this?"

It was fixed the next day with a follow up phone call thanking me for letting him know. These types of things happen. We all "eff up" at some point. Grace is shown by allowing one to right their wrong. If they choose not to, well, shame on them.

You've already taken the appropriate 1st step and spoke with him about it, and he told you to piss off. So that leaves:

1. Take it to your local PPC.

2. Take it to the Board.

or

3. Remain pissed off and complain about it online.

I prefer #1. The PPC will first work with a surveyor to help him come into compliance. If the surveyor is reasonable, the Board never hears of the matter.

Did you know that PISS is in the Bible?

2 Kings 18:27.

And other places.

Cheers to you Paul!

~ N ~

> I prefer #1. The PPC will first work with a surveyor to help him come into compliance. If the surveyor is reasonable, the Board never hears of the matter.

That's what I did Evan. FYI this is the second time the PPC will be speaking to the guy.

Hopefully it will get resolved close to home.

So, what do I do now? _Evan

For a guy that has been licensed since 1980 he sure has an odd view about surveying. He also said "What good is a CR anyway other than showing centerline information since everyone wants to do their own calcs" That tells me that he is proration all they way and could not recognize a valid monument if it bit him on the nose.

Some people just should not be licensed for boundary work.

Last week I found in him a hillside situation. His filing a CR would have saved me a couple of hours work, but that is not the issue, is it?

PS For those that do not know what PPC stands for. Each chapter of CLSA (California Land Surveyors Association) has a Professional Practices Committee (PPC). A PPC member for the area will contact the LS and hopefully the situation will get resolved and the matter will not have to go to Ric Moore of the state board. I think that is correct Evan, if not feel free to amend what I just wrote.

We all make mistakes. The real difference between those who are truly professional and those who need to find another line of work is how they react when faced with a mistake.

It is easy to smile and be friendly when things are going well. It is when the chips are down that you can know the true character of a man. This gentleman making a mistake is of little consequence. His blowing it off as unimportant is a big deal.

Definitely make sure the PPC knows and contacts him about the situation. If he still refuses to correct the problems, he does not deserve to have a license.

Larry P

So, what do I do now? _Evan

WOW, Paul, What an ignorant SOB. In my opinion, the most paramount part of this profession is leaving footsteps for others to follow. NOT walk a path and sweep up behind you to conceal your trail.

You know the answer. The right thing to do is turn him in. It is not a matter of a mistake, but clear violation of the law. It is your ethical duty to turn him in.

Just don't mess up like I did and post his name here until the case is final and made public record! 😉

Cal statutes are pretty clear...

8780. Complaints against Professional Land Surveyors

The board may receive and investigate complaints against licensed land surveyors and registered civil engineers, and make findings thereon.

By a majority vote, the board may reprove, suspend for a period not to exceed two years, or revoke the license or certificate of any licensed land surveyor or registered civil engineer, respectively, licensed under this chapter or registered under the provisions of Chapter 7 (commencing with Section 6700), whom it finds to be guilty of:

(f) Aiding or abetting any person in the violation of any provision of this chapter.

Cal statutes are pretty clear...azcailtx pls

> 8780. Complaints against Professional Land Surveyors
>
> The board may receive and investigate complaints against licensed land surveyors and registered civil engineers, and make findings thereon.
>
> By a majority vote, the board may reprove, suspend for a period not to exceed two years, or revoke the license or certificate of any licensed land surveyor or registered civil engineer, respectively, licensed under this chapter or registered under the provisions of Chapter 7 (commencing with Section 6700), whom it finds to be guilty of:
>
> (f) Aiding or abetting any person in the violation of any provision of this chapter.

Is this relative to any part of this post??

Cal statutes are pretty clear...azcailtx pls

Per the quoted statute, isn't it is a statutory violation to allow (aid and abet) a known violation to continue?

Cal statutes are pretty clear...azcailtx pls

Paul - I think azcailtx is saying that if you know he's violating the Professional Land Surveyors Act and don't turn him in, you're aiding and abetting his violation. I've never heard of anybody being disciplined for that but I could see it being interpreted that way. I agree that if you're not getting anywhere with your conversations with the other surveyor, and you really want to pursue it, you could get back with him and tell him that you feel obligated by state law to take further action, such as notifying the PPC and potentially the board, and see if that gets his attention.

Cal statutes are pretty clear...azcailtx pls

Steve, that is correct. I have also not heard of this being enforced, but it could be quoted as back-up.

Cal statutes are pretty clear...azcailtx pls

The California statutes may be clear, but so is the English language (ok, it's a little muddled on the matter of "irregardless")

aid
–verb (used with object)
1. to provide support for or relief to; help
2. to promote the progress or accomplishment of; facilitate.

abet
–verb (used with object)
to encourage, support, or countenance by aid or approval, usually in wrongdoing.

I think knowledge of, and informing the party, that they did not fulfill their statutory requirements is a long freakin' way from aiding or abetting.

Cal statutes are pretty clear...azcailtx pls

Isn't ignoring the fact that someone is continuously (not to mention blatantly) violating a statute considered aiding or abetting per your definition?