>Everything is getting cheaper. Tribrachs are made to last 6 months at most. I don't know if it is even possible to buy a decent tribrach new anymore.
Excellent tribrachs and tripods that are identical to those sold 15 years ago are available from Lieca, but not at made in china prices.
Maybe look at the M3 from Trimble. It uses Nikon optics and has the motion screws you seem to prefer. Maybe even look at Nikon. They have a station that is nearly the same as the M3 - just without the "Golden" paint.
I hate to say it (and am sure I will tick someone off by saying it) but I think Sokkia went down hill after Topcon bought them out a few years ago. As with most things, the newer things are, the cheaper they are manufactured. I worked for a company that used Leica stationaries and Trimble S6 total stations. The tribracs are exactly the same - except for the green and black paint jobs. The locking mechanisms are made out of plastic now. They break of so easy on both of them. It's a joke...I think they both get them from Seco.
> It's just weird that Tokyo Optical (aka Topcon) has for years been able to make fairly good EDM modules without apparently managing to build a decent telescope...
In the near future our instruments won't have telescopes at all. Automatic targeting has been the way for quite a while.
> Maybe look at the M3 from Trimble. It uses Nikon optics and has the motion screws you seem to prefer. Maybe even look at Nikon. They have a station that is nearly the same as the M3 - just without the "Golden" paint.
>
> I hate to say it (and am sure I will tick someone off by saying it) but I think Sokkia went down hill after Topcon bought them out a few years ago. As with most things, the newer things are, the cheaper they are manufactured. I worked for a company that used Leica stationaries and Trimble S6 total stations. The tribracs are exactly the same - except for the green and black paint jobs. The locking mechanisms are made out of plastic now. They break of so easy on both of them. It's a joke...I think they both get them from Seco.
Yeah, but I don't think Sokkia, Topcon, or Nikon have been trying to make the highest-quality equipment. It seems to me that they've all positioned themselves at a "me, too" price point, hoping to pick off the folks who don't want to spend the money to buy something really first-rate. Now, since apparently there isn't anything first-rate left, I guess the question is "what's the least second-rate of what's available?" I can't say I find that choice exciting.
> > Everything is getting cheaper. Tribrachs are made to last 6 months at most.
>
> What about pseudo-features? That instrument has onboard data collection. 'Kay, but who would ever use it since it would be completely impractical to enter point descriptors via the limited keyboard?
Engineers buy that kind of stuff because it's "geeky", don't you know?..
I tend to use Sokkia instruments
For the last few years I have been using the Set 530R. A sweet gun in a small lightweight frame that has always provided me with good closures when used properly.
After setup, I only touch the gun to site something, all keystrokes are done on the DC. I don't use the onboard DC.
It is not the same durable industry heavyweight as the SDM3E or Set 4 and other full size models. The Set 530R and upward models are plastic and cast aluminum.
I must admit the carrying case is less than its predecessors. You could ship the older ones anywhere by just wrapping it with shipping tape.
The new one is better than it looks. The inside is some sort of pliable Styrofoam in appearance but has lasted without a tear or any sign of wear all these years. It gets carried in the bed of the F150 and in the back seat of the Toyota.
It does have a 1/4in wide and one piece water seal.
I do agree and also highly object to the plastic locking snaps. Neither has broken. One was lost (they can just be snapped out very easily) and the remaining one is scruffed and faded. It does not show any structural cracks. Recently I replaced the lost one at a cost of $20.
This model and the newer models appear to have made the move to Bluetooth connectivity and would be great using something with a keyboard. The move to using a smartphone here would be a timely convenience.
My view of the CX is that it is similar to the 530R with an upgrade in electronics.
I have Dragon on my desktop and my phone, maybe it will be on our DCs next.
0.02
> Engineers buy that kind of stuff because it's "geeky", don't you know?..
Well, it's always a possibility that I've missed something, but the capability to collect survey measurements just by point i.d. number alone seems like a massive train wreck in the making. On a construction site, it might have some utility for setting out some ungodly number of precalculated coordinates, but I'm thinking I wouldn't want to try. So, if I've got the "on-board data collection" feature correctly assessed, it's value is really $0.00 and possibly less than that since it clutters up the instrument operating system menus and also the documentation.
> This model and the newer models appear to have made the move to Bluetooth connectivity and would be great using something with a keyboard. The move to using a smartphone here would be a timely convenience.
>
> My view of the CX is that it is similar to the 530R with an upgrade in electronics.
I'm not clear on how much of the CX is Topcon and how much is Sokkia. The CX appears to be identical to the Topcon ES, so I was assuming that it's mostly Topcon, Topcon being the parent company.
The EDM on the CX I rented was very good. In prism mode, it was checking within about 0.001m the distances between control points as previously determined by me with a combination of measurements made by GPS and with the Zeiss Elta 50. I thought it was quite decent.
The telescope was quite unimpressive. I would have thought it was some sort of manufacturer's faulty second had I not looked through other Sokkia and Topcon telescopes over the years.
The layout of the motion screws was presumably chosen to minimize manufacturing cost, not to maximize performance. The tangent motions seemed a bit sloppy and second-rate.
> In the near future our instruments won't have telescopes at all. Automatic targeting has been the way for quite a while.
So, are you expecting to be able to point an instrument without a telescope at a mark on a bearing tree, a radio tower that is a coordinated point, or a remote building corner?
> Yeah, but don't you have to endlessly take it off the tripod to enter the descriptor for the shot unless you're just surveying a whole bunch of points with the same descriptor?
No, we mount the DC in such a way that the keypad is angled upward so that it's convenient for data entry. My assistant -- who runs the Topcon when we work 2-man -- uses a 2-thumb typing technique that's pretty fast. (I don't run the DC at the gun enough to remember how I do it.)
> No, we mount the DC in such a way that the keypad is angled upward so that it's convenient for data entry. My assistant -- who runs the Topcon when we work 2-man -- uses a 2-thumb typing technique that's pretty fast. (I don't run the DC at the gun enough to remember how I do it.)
So, if I understand that right, you've got the DC more or less firmly attached to the tripod while someone is punching away on the keyboard? Have you convinced yourself by checking that the net effect of that isn't to shift the circle setting in the total station?
I've never understood why all of them don't have Hz adjust knobs both left and right (I typically use the left, but sometimes use both), like my old wild. Topcons right only was enough to make me go home and wait till I found another instrument.
Reach around for vertical adjust I again like on the left in F1, like the old wild. More comfortable to reach around than up under or near the eyepiece I'm trying to look thru. Most measurements are F1 so I like it this way.
The beep is also handy. No need to go into the offset routine on the data collector unless the sighted point is very close. Take the shot, when it beeps turn into the corner and wait for the second beep that is the data collector storing the angle now on the gun.
Lots of junk out there and has been the case for a long time now. Wonder if I could get a top mount reflectorless to put on my old wild? Maybe even a top mount scanner? Might be a business there for someone to develop retro fits modern technology to quality older instruments.
I have been a Topcon person for a long long time. From total station to GPS to automatic levels. Only recently have we bought the Sokkia Digital Levels.
I am not sure what you guys are all complaining about. Topcon units are designed for everyday work at a price that are for everyday type of surveyors.
Sure Leica units have better optics. But if your company is not a top 100 construction or surveying firm then they don't have the budget to get museum surveying equipments for everyday work.
While you are thrashing the Topcon brand, just count how many projects were completed by these work horse units? I have no statistics as to how many Topcon total stations are sold yearly but I could fairly make a guess that it would outsell Leica total stations.
As to your critic about placing the vertical screw on the left or right or up or down, my answer is - get use to what you have. So what if you need to use your left hand over the alidade to reach it in reverse reading? As long as you do it repeatedly then you will get the hang of it.
Which is better - left or right hand drive vehicles? If you were born in England then you would say that the LHD cars are better. If you were from the US then you would say the RHD are better. Either way, it sure beats walking right?
Kent,
I'm in the same boat, been using my Geodimeter 650 Bergstrand since I bought it in 2005. It's still a fantastic, if heavy, instrument, but I really think adding reflectorless will help me in the field. I posted a while ago in the buy/sell/trade category and got exactly two emails and no comments. I'm also thinking of a refurbished S6, but haven't made up my mind yet.
both knobs on my Geo are on the right side, easily spin to activate the servos if you need to do anything at the gun. You just put your finger lightly on the 2" wheel and spin it and the thing runs like butter. (my apologies to Paula Deen)
Cue the Evil Empire Theme...
Kent, come to the dark side...I am your Father.
Laser dot is the answer. It won't work on the tower, though.
Onboard DC
> > Everything is getting cheaper. Tribrachs are made to last 6 months at most.
>
> What about pseudo-features? That instrument has onboard data collection. 'Kay, but who would ever use it since it would be completely impractical to enter point descriptors via the limited keyboard?
My Nikon NPL 350 has onboard DC and I love it. No extra cords, batteries and touch screens to worry about. Just keep you descriptions short and they work great for small jobs.
Onboard DC
I use a TCU that is a full DC that clips onto the instrument.
Yes the limited keyboard is an annoyance but the less weight and cables can't be beat for backwoods traversing. I use a code list for the rare topo we do so there isn't that much typing. I've acclimated to the limited keyboard more than I thought I would.
Some of the Japanese on board DCs are pretty limited though.
I think the TCU is obsolete, I don't know what Trimble is using for a face plate these days. It has a survey basic function which is simply the ange and distances if you like to write it down but I always let it store the sets. On steep, slippery set ups it's really nice to just start it turning then stand back and let it do it's thing.
I must be spoiled by Leica or just to dumb to know any different but my TCR 1105 with tds onboard is pretty slick. Two handed tangent adjustment makes for fast shooting and the onboard data collection means my hands are free. I'd prefer a full keyboard but I get by just fine.
I do like the two handed tangent adjustment though. It just feel natural for me now.
:good: :good: post!!
I think the same. Life long Topcon user. Good Instrument for the money. Always innovative...most of the time hitting the mark and but sometimes missing.
DC is a moot point. Used all type of collectors and never had a problem even with the most inexperienced I-person operating the TS.
Cases have held up well . Fixed some latches but that depends upon how they are treated by field personnel.
Topcon may be a step below other brands for the optics but beats the other TS in electronics, battery life, durability and just getting the job done in challenging terrains. It is a Timex compared to owning a Rolex and there is nothing wrong with using a Timex.
I know they had to merge up with Sokkia to compete in the Asian market against developing China brands for business survival.
It is kind of ironic thougt that they are the leading manufacturer of eye examination apparatus. Next time that you have an eye exam, you will probably be staring into Topcon equipment. 😐
> So, if I understand that right, you've got the DC more or less firmly attached to the tripod while someone is punching away on the keyboard? Have you convinced yourself by checking that the net effect of that isn't to shift the circle setting in the total station?
I have. For topo it doesn't matter; the accuracy level of the positioning at the pole is already pretty low (generally no better than a few hundredths of a foot). For the control work I typically do -- property boundaries, mainly -- I haven't seen any measurable effect. We use a fairly heavy tripod (Crain Tri-Max), which undoubtedly helps to dampen any button-pushing vibrations that might affect the circle.