Yep....I got a call for an ALTA from a lady who knows absolutely nothing about them, none, nada, zilch. It is a 13 acre apartment site about an hour away & of course she needed it in hurry.
She was not able to provide me the Table A and she did not have a Title Commitment and could not even fathom the concept of different items being needed on a checklist. She admitted to being unfamiliar with this aspect of her job & I must have attempted 12 dozen times to make her explain that I needed to see the Table A and the Title Package before I can begin to price it.
So she started talking down to me and then arguing and then it went downhill.?ÿ
How do you make someone who refuses to understand that I need to know what needs to be complied with before I can do what they need done?
I can not count the number of Realtors, Attorneys, Judges and other supposedly knowledgeable people that refused to send me a copy of their deed and merely sent their property description and insisted that was all I needed to accomplish what they want.
"Why don't you just hang me out to dry" followed by big laugh and a tone dial ending.
I did one like that about a month ago. I simply didn't do anything on table A except for the things I normally do on a boundary survey like showing improvements and visible evidence of utilities.?ÿ
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If I were really concerned I'd ask to speak to whomever is requiring the ALTA. She's not. She's been tasked with getting it done.?ÿ
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I did press my client for who to certify to.?ÿ
It could be worse.?ÿ A few years ago I did a boundary survey as requested (with a contract).?ÿ After delivery I got a call from the client's attorney wanting to know where all the data and the ALTA statement were.?ÿ What ALTA??ÿ I was never told it was to be an ALTA nor was I given title commitment, tables, etc.?ÿ Well how much will it cost to change this to an ALTA??ÿ About what it cost to do it to begin with AFTER I receive and review the documents required.?ÿ?ÿ Silence on the other end for quite a while.?ÿ I never heard back so I guess maybe they closed without an ALTA.
Andy
a wise man once said:
"If I were really concerned I'd ask to speak to whomever is requiring the ALTA. She's not. She's been tasked with getting it done.?ÿ"
maybe half the time the person ordering has any clue what the nitty gritty is they're asking for.?ÿ i always cut straight to finding out who needs it and why- usually find that the client really doesn't NEED that cert, and i can therefore save them some money!!!,?ÿand- if it is the scenario that aforesaid wiseman describes (which it frequently happens to be)- more often than not you end up with an incredibly grateful survey orderer who doesn't forget how helpful you were, whether he/she stays in that position or not.
imo, an ALTA cert is a waste of money in about 98% of the work i do, based upon both the size and scope of what i work on, as well as the standards by which i'm going to (and, to some extent, am bound to) already.?ÿ only for the biggest of the big ones (airports, campus-type scenarios, multiple-block urban, heavy civil-type) would i go out of my way to recommend an ALTA (even though 108% of the time that's already required on a gig like that).?ÿ otherwise i don't actively discourage people from paying the premium for that, but i do let them know exactly what the differences are between what i'm certifying to with it or without it.?ÿ usually doesn't amount to much unless they want aerials or SUE work done.?ÿ me simply stating that i'm insured usually satisfies anyone who might check that table A item.
Why would any client want an ALTA if the lender isn't requiring it?
Why would any client want an ALTA if the lender isn't requiring it?
Well, right. But I can see if I??m dropping 8 or 9 figures on a property, the premium for the extended undercar clearcoat may not be worth sweating.
Done a goodly amount of ALTAs in my career and charged plenty for doing it right.?ÿ Obviously you cannot estimate the cost until you ruminate over a current Title Commitment, get all the schedule B reference documents and research them, do do drive through or nowadays at least a Google Earth fly-through.
They seem to be creatures of commercial property transactions,?ÿ multi-million dollar deals with various financing players.?ÿ The *Banks* (or good Title Company agents) are the players you want to deal with; they want indemnity against a loss if the property has really bad hidden problems, i.e., your signature on a quality /boundary/topo/culture/plottable encumbrances/ map.
Anybody who called me and asked for an ALTA to be completed by next Friday was ignored as a putzer.?ÿ The good clients know what they're doing, they send the Title Commitment before asking you for a quote, are looking at a 1-2 month timeline, can be advised to add or delete Schedule B items upon your discovery work and generally work with you during the process.?ÿ Best of all, they don't choke when you present them with an itemized estimate of office and field time that adds up to $30,000/$50,000 for big ones which will keep your business humming?ÿ off and on for the next few billing cycles.
It's lucrative if you deal with above board knowledgeable clients, not some?ÿ junior loan officer who has no clue what an ALTA is or what they entail. OTOH, I have done fairly complex ALTAs on two weeks notice for favored clients using lotsa' midnight oil and crew overtime, and charged them a premium for the expedited service, which they gladly paid.
ALTAs are funny creatures, private non-recorded maps.?ÿ But if you find a significant discrepancy in the boundary, that triggers an ROS around here, and should be a contingent item in your estimate, another $5,000 or so considering the additional research,?ÿ filing costs, liability transfer and map preparation required.?ÿ A few clients I've dealt with say right up front they'll pay for an ROS too as part of the package, based on their laymen's review of the boundary situation.
Best thing is some of these transactions involve new construction after the sale, so if your shop does construction staking too you've got your nose under the tent to bid competitively because you've all the baseline surveying in CAD ready to go.
To answer she was tasked with getting an ALTA Survey but apparently not given any other advice, guidance or instructions and it was obvious that she was clueless and she admitted as much but she got flustered and began talking down to me bordering on being rude.
I am willing to help anyone but dammit don't talk down to me.
You didn't need to help her. The situation was beyond her. You needed to go up the chain.?ÿ
You didn't need to help her. The situation was beyond her. You needed to go up the chain.?ÿ
I intend to do that Monday.
I am willing to help anyone but dammit don't talk down to me.
That is what people do as a defense when they are feeling embarrassed. People calling for surveys who don't really know what they want isn't at all uncommon. You are supposed to be the professional who knows, or knows how to find out.
This is like going to the doctor and saying "Doc, I've got a pain right here".?ÿ
And the doc says "Have you got appedicitis or just indigestion?"
You?ÿ snort "I don't know, you are supposed to be the doctor!"?ÿ
To which the doc retorts, "when you decide which it is come back and I'll see about treating it, but I'm not sure I like your attitude!"
If, by chance, you do manage to get this client on the phone Monday I'd suggest that some serious sucking up is in order.?ÿ
When I get a request for an ALTA survey with no other information, i.e. Table A items, I just give them the minimum requirements set forth. Eventually the survey will land on someones desk who knows what they want and then I get the request for the additional information, Table A items, to be shown and they get the additional fee needed to provide that information.?ÿ ?ÿ
I've used that gambit but only after making a game attempt at proactively determining the client's needs. No client likes those kind of surprises.
Mark, I can assure you I will not be sucking up.
I put ALTA surveys right up there with kidney stones so I'm not gonna go out of my way to get it.?ÿ
