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What honestly is a qualified Party Chief? A local company is hiring for a Party Chief and their minimum requirements are some experience and a High School Diploma. Here are their links.
I was contacted for the position because of my experience in the gas and oil industry but once they asked me what I thought a reasonable salary would be for me they stopped the phone interview. I mean it's great to be out of high school with some experience and have this opportunity. I always say, it's better to be in the work force then straight to college, this way it gives you an idea if you truly like what you are going in for. Once I was out of High School I took my general education classes and worked at a local construction company. I was asked to help the surveyor pound some stakes in and I was hooked. I didn't know what I wanted to do in life, but after that day I knew that was my future and so I went on to finish with both the Civil and Survey degree.
But, I guess what I'm getting at, is that are the qualifications for a Party Chief being lowered? You could have your degree and SIT cert. and apply to this position and be up against some other people without the education. I strongly believe in experience over education but some sort of you feels you spend the money to learn you should deserve the experience as well. Or, you have been in the field now after college and they approach you like they did with me and then laugh at you when they ask you for a salary estimate.
This seemed more like a rant than anything. I just want to know some thoughts because I have professors still keep in touch with me and ask about positions and expectations for students graduating. Thanks!
> But, I guess what I'm getting at, is that are the qualifications for a Party Chief being lowered?
Yes, as they are for just about everything else.
[sarcasm]Now come up on stage and get in line for your trophy[/sarcasm]
Dont let it bother you. They are the ones that could not afford you. Find the ones that can.
> What honestly is a qualified Party Chief?
Sadly, the qualifications for a PC depend heavily on the needs (and intelligence quotient) of the surveyor in responsible charge. I've sent men out in charge of a crew that weren't necessarily qualified for anything other than "tape between that MH and that FH". Expecting anything else from them could have proved dangerous. Sadly the business end of our profession weighs heavily on personnel selection. Some folks would rather save 7 or 10k a year by employing a greenhorn as compared to a competent crew supervisor.
To answer your question: IMHO a qualified Party Chief is someone who doesn't detest outdoor work. Someone who realizes how much they DON'T know. And above all else they have to understand they job is to correlate the ethereal (points on a screen) with the actual field conditions. AND they need to understand those field conditions are usually the ruling factor, not vice-versa.
As much as someone may want to apply their knowledge in real world experience and as frustrating as it may be, I would steer a person away from a PC job with low pay. The employer probably isn't expecting much.
There will always be room (and pay) for a good party chief. The trick is finding a good surveyor that needs one.
There is a local kid who wants to get into the field (wants to get out of lumber delivery). Good attitude, good aptitude, No experience.
I am taking him out some Saturdays to show him what the ropes look like, but how much can you show someone in a few days?
The trouble: he makes more than we typically pay a newbie. He cannot work for less. I would not mind offering him more if I knew he would pick this up and run with it, but training is painful and not guaranteed.
Most "Asbuilt" crew chiefs I have seen are the epitome of button-pusher. some companies I've talked to are setting them crews up with GIS handhelds with an external antenna so that they can PPK observe the welds.
Not a horrible idea on it's own merit, but the real reason they have implemented it is because half their "crew chiefs" don't know how to set up a base, make sure their coordinate system is right etc. You can do anything you want with WGS84 after the fact...
Perhaps, just perhaps, it's time to look at the business model and update the business plan with a good accountant? Sounds like you might need to make room at the "bottom" of your employee job descriptions!
Along with being famous for shooting ourselves in the foot business wise. We (as a profession) should, just maybe, take the time to enjoy that we've gotten this far, with the same old business model and plan. Then perhaps start looking at what's going to keep our business's alive in the future with an updated business plan that allows us to pay competitive wages, benefits, and training for employees.
Succession planning has become more and more of an issue, and the ability to pay help reasonable wages to new employees is just a part of that.
It's a proven fact, you can't pay a person enough to create a passion for this business. It comes from somewhere deep inside.
If we as a profession can not pay interested, engaged, intelligent employees more than a lumber delivery driver (I'm sure you've already explained this to this potential employee). Shame on us, if our business model doesn't have a spot in it for part time, lower waged employees that are there to learn the "ropes". Seems like a good opportunity at this point, to take the time to update it.
With changes happening as rapidly as they are in every sector. We as a profession need to re-visit those plans with our accountants on a yearly basis at a minimum lately.
Explain to this guy, that there's a certain amount of training and education that goes along with his interest and enthusiasm, and see if he's willing to stay on part time at lower wages till he gets up to that level. You might just have found a good employee and, as at least I have noticed, it is getting tougher to do so.
Guess they're not too worried about whether the pipe is in the ROW...
On the first question the answer is simple. A party chief can lead a crew to perform the survey tasks required with minimal direction. I realize in practical terms that doesn't mean a lot..
In my opinion I should be able to hand a crew chief a plat, basic zoning specs and a set of house plans and send him out the door. When he gets back his notes should show me that the house was staked at an offset useful to the operator and foundation crew and in a place that works. I should be able to send them to a site topographic survey and know the Engineer will have what he needs (without a return trip). The data should process out to show we met specs. As for boundary I am more hands on, but this is all the small stuff. The biggest thing is I MUST be able to trust them to tell me the truth. I forgive mistakes but not lies. If you don't believe me ask any of my former employees or wives..
As for the second question, things do change. The technical expertise should be adding the skills of understanding equipment and basic geodesy. I fear instead it is changing to require 'button' knowledge and not actual survey skills.
Any person with the desire and capacity to reach the level of Crew Chief deserves better than driver wages. Around here drivers start at minimum wage and rarely top $12 an hour...
Not sure I understand what you mean. PPK can be as accurate as RTK, and from my experience Trimble GeoXH handhelds are better than standard survey grade/WAAS only. Usually around a decimeter with favorable sky view because they use OmniStar.
Not that I condone their practice concerning utilization of under-qualified personnel.
There seems to be a difference in terminology among some companies as to the definition of "party chief". I ran into this with a company I interviewed with once.
My definition of party chief, which seems to be the most common, is the individual in the field, in charge of a 2 or 3-person crew. Some companies, however, consider the party chief to be the office person in charge of the formerly mentioned person, or whom I would consider to be the "survey manager". Am I the only one who sees this difference, or is it a regional thing?
Don't need 1 if your solo! 😉 That's why I went that route. Couldn't find qualified help and lost too much money attempting to train guys who just didn't "have it". Now, all I need is fresh batteries and some grunt w/a machete!!!
P.S.- Grunts are easier to find that PC's...
Grunts can't cover for you if you want or need to take some time off to have a life or if you find the need to be in two places at once. I'm trying to dial someone in from a construction surveying background and finding a fundamental lack of knowledge about boundary surveying, research and drafting. Hopefully he picks it up.
Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.