Someone calls yestesrday asking for a proposal to prepare a topo and boundary on a residential lot here. After searching my records, I see that in 2014 we had done a survey on this same parcel. Of course the current owners don't know this. In the past, I may have just released this work product if I got permission from the previous client. Now I'm wondering if I have good reason to be instead selling this survey to the new owner. I'd of course tell them that it had already been done and give them a discounted cost, maybe half of the previous cost. It occurred to me that by just giving it away, I'm really just extending my liability for free to someone that I ?ÿhave no contractual relationship and responsibility to. ?ÿ
Am I justified in attempting to sell this map and CAD file?
Figure out how much profit you made the first time. ?ÿAdd that on the actual work required. ?ÿNo need to get too greedy and lose out on that profit.
If they had the map and Cad file there may not be any additional work required now. I wouldn't be changing to their name and updating the date but they may be just fine with that. I may get a little extra work when they go to construction but this would be minimal probably just quickly staking a setback line or two.?ÿ
4 years old? I would never release a survey that old without a resurvey.?ÿ
Just my 0.2'?ÿ ??ÿ
This scenario happens quite frequently with commercial ALTA Survey's.?ÿ I've done 3 ALTA's on the same shopping center in 1 year before.?ÿ Each to a different purchaser/lender/title company group.?ÿ I get paid for each transaction.?ÿ I look at it a couple different ways.?ÿ Each "update", as everyone else affectionately refers to them as, extends my liability in time and number of people which I need compensation for.?ÿI also have to do some level of inspection on the property to?ÿmake sure?ÿnothing has changed including the boundary monumentation so there is an actual labor cost plus the time to talk to the Client, setup billing, invoicing, address attorney questions, ect.?ÿ I also look at it as if?ÿ'what would it cost if they went to another Surveyor who hadn't done any work on it before?'?ÿ It would cost what the first one did.?ÿ?ÿWithin about 3 years?ÿsince the original was done and assuming no substantial construction has occurred, each subsequent Survey usually costs somewhere around half of what the original did. After 3 years or if something has changed it goes right back to the original cost plus inflation.?ÿ
The realtor certainly gets the same commission if they transact the same property multiple times and the lawyer clock tics regardless.
This happens all the time to us. We send a field crew out with the prior survey, they check everything, note the changes, then we issue a new one with the current date...
A lot of changes can happen to a parcel of land in 4 years.
Remodel, erosion, additions, fence building or destroying and many other things and events that can affect elevations and monument location.
Of course many people would accept the same version of your previous survey if they could get their hands on iit.
Revisit the property, check everythinng until you are satisfied and make any corrections and update any ownership of this and adjoining properties.
?ÿ
Sorry but I would not be doing this at a discounted price. Did you topo the property on your previous survey? I charge more for topo work than I do boundary typically. Think of it this way if you were a house painter and had painted the house four years ago would you be giving a discount to paint it again? Liability is not free, please charge for it. Also why do they need your CAD file??ÿ
Thanks for all of the responses. I guess ?ÿa big component is whether I should release the older survey and Cad file WITHOUT changing the date and name and without field verifying uunder any circumstances and even with disclaimer of liability. General consensus here seems to be no. Then their only option is to have it field verified and pay money, I think I'll stick with this.?ÿ
Someone calls yestesrday asking for a proposal to prepare a topo and boundary on a residential lot here. After searching my records, I see that in 2014 we had done a survey on this same parcel. Of course the current owners don't know this. In the past, I may have just released this work product if I got permission from the previous client. Now I'm wondering if I have good reason to be instead selling this survey to the new owner. I'd of course tell them that it had already been done and give them a discounted cost, maybe half of the previous cost. It occurred to me that by just giving it away, I'm really just extending my liability for free to someone that I ?ÿhave no contractual relationship and responsibility to. ?ÿ
Am I justified in attempting to sell this map and CAD file?
Never ever under any circumstances give it away and never ever charge less than what the next best local competition in your area would otherwise charge.
I can agree with offering a little bit of a discount because you have already surveyed it but that does not mean you have any obligation or duty to provide it out of courtesy.
This is a far too common occurrence in my area where a couple of old time local guys who are pathetically cheap to begin with do it for wages. I routinely get calls for a survey and make a fair estimate to do the job only to be told that "so & so" said he could do it for 1/4 of my price. I later find out that "so & so" had previously done the survey 15 years ago and he just "updated" the survey. Now I get the updating thing and I don't have a problem with it but dammit man "so & so" just provided an updated survey with a new stamp and date for 25% (or less) of market prices. At least charge close to market price.
And I don't think that you have a duty to tell them you have surveyed it previously either.
This kind of practice drives prices down and pisses off every other surveyor in your area.
?ÿ
Thanks for the comments Just A. I do believe that I have an obligation to tell them and be completely upfront. If I were in their position and found this out later I wouldn't be particularly happy if I knew that I had paid full market price. There is really nothing to hide, you're extending your liability and that is reasonable that you should be compensated. It will be a take it or leave it deal anyway
The bank charges the same closing costs and preparation fees every time they finance the same property again.
The title company charges the same fee every time a new title policy is written on the same property again.
The real estate agent charges the same 6% every time the same propety sells again.
The bug inspector charges the same fee every time the same property sells again.
The appraiser charges the same fee every time the same property sells again.
The recording fees are based on the same fees every time the same property changes ownership.
I hope everyone sees a pattern developing on repeat property sales.
0.02
The bank charges the same closing costs and preparation fees every time they finance the same property again.
The title company charges the same fee every time a new title policy is written on the same property again.
The real estate agent charges the same 6% every time the same propety sells again.
The bug inspector charges the same fee every time the same property sells again.
The appraiser charges the same fee every time the same property sells again.
The recording fees are based on the same fees every time the same property changes ownership.
I hope everyone sees a pattern developing on repeat property sales.
0.02
I just went and got my hair cut and oil changed today and both places charged me the regular amount of money even though both places had done the same job several times. The nerve of them expecting full payment for doing the same job again.?ÿ
Unlike all those others it seems a huge number of surveyors are carriers of a disease called "profit guilt" that makes you:
1) work for wages
2) use old wore out equipment
3) drive ragged out trucks because you can't bring yourself to charge proper fees
4) pay employee crap for wages with no benefits
5) are unable to retire because of the aforementioned refusal to charge proper fees.
6) complain about not being able to hire good people but you refuse to pay for good people.
The bank charges the same closing costs and preparation fees every time they finance the same property again.
The title company charges the same fee every time a new title policy is written on the same property again.
The real estate agent charges the same 6% every time the same propety sells again.
The bug inspector charges the same fee every time the same property sells again.
The appraiser charges the same fee every time the same property sells again.
The recording fees are based on the same fees every time the same property changes ownership.
I hope everyone sees a pattern developing on repeat property sales.
0.02
That's all true. The difference here is that I could potentially send off this old map in 30 seconds of my time and the recipient would probably be completely satisfied for their purposes. Not the same with the other examples.?ÿ
Depends upon if I like them or not. If I like them I give it to them. If it's an Oil Company out of Texas, I rape them.
They are asking everyone for free services and who is giving their's away for free?
A surveyor is not stating a fee for simply a piece of paper with name and seal and cost of printing and mailing.
Surveyor's fee includes a certain amount of years of liability, professional quality and responsibility that no other person involved shares or is held responsible for, except the property inspector and bug man if defects in paint, toilet not flushing, doors jammed or presence of termites.
Most of the other providers simply cut and past the data the surveyor provides and change a few names and other info before printing.
I get many calls for new certified copies because the sellers do not want to give up their copy when they sell their property. They will have no reason to keep it, they just want something for free.
Here's another question to ponder...
Could I just sell this map exactly as is, no changing dates, no changing ownership names and no field checking provided I issued a disclaimer of responsibility??ÿ
Is that an option??ÿ
I don't think it's a good option.?ÿ Disseminating outdated information might attach you to some liabilities you weren't bargaining for.
Licensed Land Surveyor
Finger Lakes Region, Upstate New York
4 years old? I would never release a survey that old without a resurvey.?ÿ
Just my 0.2'?ÿ ??ÿ
Absolutely, amen and amen.?ÿ
?ÿI also look at it as if?ÿ'what would it cost if they went to another Surveyor who hadn't done any work on it before?'?ÿ It would cost what the first one did.?ÿ
The realtor certainly gets the same commission if they transact the same property multiple times and the lawyer clock tics regardless.
Your work is just as valuable, and adds as much value to the client as any other surveyor who might contract to do the job. You are under no obligation to discount your value to the client. The product itself has a certain value, and certainly the product you provide is as valuable as some other surveyor who might provide the same product (assuming you do the high quality work I am confident you do).
Any discount you might consider giving should be based only on the fact that you do not want to lose the job, and if need be might come down just a bit to help ensure the job is yours.
I am tired of the days when surveyors served the Public as a copy shop freely giving away copies of their previous work. No more. Act like it's a business and you are in it to make money.?ÿ
