We have had a Trimble DR 200 sitting in our cabinet for about 3 years now with little to no use. The main problem we have had is that when it was purchased new not enough training was done for the field crews. I have been trying to begin using this equipment to give us more flexibility with one-man and two man-crews.
While I was able to get it working properly the other day, I had a few questions.
We are using it with a TDS Ranger 500 data collector with robotics module Survey Pro.
1. When the instrument is first set up we are having a tough time getting it to find the prism. We can dial it in, and start it searching, but it just looks all over. I am thinking the autolock button has something to do with this?
2. How can you double an angle? Hoping there is a simple answer I'm overlooking, but at this point it seems as though we won't be able to use it to set any type of control in the current situation.
3. Is there a better way to get it to find you when say a bus passes between you and it than just getting it to search again?
1. When the instrument is first set up we are having a tough time getting it to find the prism. We can dial it in, and start it searching, but it just looks all over. I am thinking the autolock button has something to do with this? Is your remote target powered on? If so, press the lock icon inside the remote control screen.
2. How can you double an angle? Hoping there is a simple answer I'm overlooking, but at this point it seems as though we won't be able to use it to set any type of control in the current situation. Repetition Angle routine inside TDS.
3. Is there a better way to get it to find you when say a bus passes between you and it than just getting it to search again? You can either tell it to turn to a recent point you shot that will be close, use the Joy Stick, or connect (bluetooth) to a small GPS device (I used a Holux GPS receiver) to allow for the Geolock to function.
When you see a bus, or construction equipment about to get in your way, stop. It will lock on, if your moving it will try to follow. When you stop a few seconds before, it should keep you in sight. I use Trimble Data Collector, can't help on other issues.
Lu - I can't answer your Trimble-specific questions but as a chump who bought a Topcon robot a few years ago, I can say that unless you really, really want to run 1-person crews, they're a pain in the ass. I can't remember the last time we ran ours in robotic mode because we always go out with two people. I don't know how anybody gets a traverse through the woods done with one of these boat-anchors in less than three times the time it takes 2 guys with a standard total station. If you don't mind it taking way longer to set up and weighing two or three times as much as it should, it makes a pretty good backup instrument.
all good questions.... I used the TSC2 with Carlson SE software when I worked with robotics..... one thing I remember is that we always dialed in the control as QA. I found that the robot does not track the same part of the prism even with multiple angles to the same BS which throws off the vertical. As far as finding you after the movement of an obstruction.... we had a function that manually controlled the total station. we would dial it into our location, or there abouts, and then set it back to auto track..... that almost always worked. I am not familiar with the software you speak of, but I do know that topcon has manuals and classes online for topcon users. hope this helps a little.
Stand on a known point and have the robot turn to you!
Or tou mat just be standing to close!
I like to sit the robot a few hundred feet away from where I'm working.
Hope this helps
> When you see a bus, or construction equipment about to get in your way, stop. It will lock on, if your moving it will try to follow. When you stop a few seconds before, it should keep you in sight. I use Trimble Data Collector, can't help on other issues.
The tracking abilities of a Topcon Robot vs a Trimble robot are different. Trimble uses an active Target which makes it so the Robot will only track the prism. This eliminates the frustration of the instrument tracking other reflective surfaces. If you have a 900 or 9000 series Topcon robot I would suggest taking it in and having it upgraded to XTrac 7. This will improve your Topcon's ability to track the prism. I have run both and can say if you are having someone stand behind the instrument then you are missing the boat. Through learned practices you can make a robotic total station sing for you regardless of brand.
I agree with your assessment regarding a total station traversingthrough the woods. In that one and only situation it may make sense to uses a lighter total station. If that is the only type of work you do, then that is a very valid point. I can say that I have been set up outside of the woods trying to get shots inside and cut way less line because the robot "sees" better than an I-man.
If you are really this clueless as to how the robot and the data collector software works, why haven't you tried reading the manuals? They are easily downloaded from Trimble's website if you don't have the hard copies that should have been sold to you.
Finding a local Trimble/TDS dealer and getting some refresher training is your best bet. It will cost a little bit of money up front but the ROI will be well worth it. You have a great robotic survey system and you will be happy you finally pulled it out. Good luck!
Another thing to do is to go to [Job], [Settings}, [Instrument Settings], [Instrument Settings], [Search] and then toggle the 'Horizontal Range' drop down box and change it from '5' to '60' or '90'. This will give it a wider search window. My Trimble usually takes less than 5 - 6 seconds to find me if I'm within the search window.
TOPCON ROBOTICS
Difficulty locking on
There is an adjustment setting for search patterns so your able to gain a lock easier. My number one method for a lock was to shut it down and start it back up. 90% of the time it some how solved the issue.
There is many many things that can cause difficulty getting a lock. Number one is their any fog in or on your prism lens??? Sparkles in some asphalts and concrete surfaces, sun glares, car tags, car windows, bldg windows, people wearing reflective clothing, signs, water ext. ext. these things will confuse the instrument so to speak!
Double angles
Never did it the same way ya would at the instrument. Take your shot, step off the point, get back on it and shoot it again comparing the error. then go back and check backsight. :)Or set up your backsight and re- zero prior to making control points if needed instead of walking back.
No doubt. The Robot wasn't designed so one guy could chop line 1/2 the day and spend the other half a day moving around backsights, foresights, and the instrument. That would be about the worst application for a robot.
Where you'd see your biggest pay off, with a one-man/robot vs. two man conventional, is something like setting it up with 7' HI and topo'ing a parking lot ... I pretty much garantee that a robot is way faster than a two man crew when it comes to those types of jobs, since it's great at looking over SUVs and vans.
I used topcon robotics with a ranger controller for a few years and it did very well even comparing to a 2 man crew.
When we got our robotics a topcon represenative gave us an instructive demonstration that helped alot which was free. Go Topcon
> Finding a local Trimble/TDS dealer and getting some refresher training is your best bet. It will cost a little bit of money up front but the ROI will be well worth it. You have a great robotic survey system and you will be happy you finally pulled it out. Good luck!
Best advice. If the dealer can't do it (possible) contact Topcon for a factory trainer.
Budget a thousand bucks plus expenses for someone to come out and train you for a day. Then pay whatever it costs to get ongoing telephone support.
If you guys haven't used a robotic total station for three years you obviously don't need it. Sell it.
When we got ours, the Topcon salesman's business card rode in my wallet at all times. The first time we took it out on a real job, we we trying to traverse down a semi-busy street right when school was getting out. Imagine all the bright shiny things the robot was interested in besides the prism. Running the rod up higher helped getting shots but didn't help with accuracy any. We could have gotten that job done with conventional methods in maybe a quarter of the time. Parking lot topos, sure, a robot would be great for something like that. To me, any time you have to move a lot and take very few shots per setup, or carry it a long ways, it's not the right tool.
> Parking lot topos, sure, a robot would be great for something like that. To me, any time you have to move a lot and take very few shots per setup, or carry it a long ways, it's not the right tool.
In general I agree, but a robot provides scheduling flexibility even when it may not be the optimal tool for the job. This is especially important for a small operation like mine. I have only 1 employee -- a part-timer with another part-time job -- and having a robot means that I don't have to check my employee's availability before committing to a field schedule. I can just jump in the truck and go on a moment's notice if need be.
I haven't yet found any situations in which working with my robot is faster than working with my I-man, but it's been very useful nonetheless.
Robots are another tool just like a tape measure or a hammer. They are going to work great in a lot of circumstances and not so great in others. Like every tool there is a right and a wrong way to use it. The key to learning the right way is to get it out and use it the way it was intended. On busy roads I would suggest traversing up one side of the road if possible. This will keep you from having to sight through traffic. If you are doing construction layout there is no better tool out there.
Anther great tool is GPS. You can survey most roads accurately with GPS and don't have to depend on line of sight. You will also be able to run control via static observations or by utilizing a RTN.
The "money is no object" dream crew for me is a Party Chief and a good I-man with a robot, GPS (Base/Rover w/RTN capabilities), and two collectors. There is nothing more productive than this configuration.
I know this is not feasible for everyone but a lot of surveyors who have downsized in this economy may have both already or enough spare equipment laying around to sell and make the leap.
