RIght of Entry notice... and how!

Thank fully we don't have such impediments in Ontario under the Surveys Act ..

6. (1) A surveyor or a person in the surveyor’s employ while making a survey may,
(a) at any time enter and pass over the land of any person; or
(b) at any time suitable to the occupant of a building enter the building,
and do any act thereon or therein for any purpose of the survey, but the surveyor is liable for any damage occasioned thereby.
Offence for obstructing
(2) Every person who interferes with or obstructs a surveyor or a person in the surveyor’s employ in the exercise of any of the powers conferred by subsection (1) is guilty of an offence and on conviction is liable to a fine of not more than $100. R.S.O. 1990, c. S.30, s. 6.

Although as you see, the fine of $100 is ludicrous.

Cheers,

Derek

I started to argue with a landowner re: right of entry, but the 12 ga. convinced me of the error of my ways! (you don't argue with a shotgun!):excruciating:

-JD-

> Thank fully we don't have such impediments in Ontario under the Surveys Act ..
>
> 6. (1) A surveyor or a person in the surveyor’s employ while making a survey may,
> (a) at any time enter and pass over the land of any person; or
> (b) at any time suitable to the occupant of a building enter the building,
> and do any act thereon or therein for any purpose of the survey, but the surveyor is liable for any damage occasioned thereby.
> Offence for obstructing
> (2) Every person who interferes with or obstructs a surveyor or a person in the surveyor’s employ in the exercise of any of the powers conferred by subsection (1) is guilty of an offence and on conviction is liable to a fine of not more than $100. R.S.O. 1990, c. S.30, s. 6.
>
> Although as you see, the fine of $100 is ludicrous.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Derek

That's the way Florida is except no fines for obstruction.

JD-

Right on !!

The old adage: You may be right, but do you want to be "dead right" ?

Cheers,

Derek

PS-

Please stop being so generous with sharing your surplus Alaskan "heat". :party:

Tiz about 10F tonight !

In MA we are allowed to trespass provided we give due notice.

Section 120C. Whenever a land surveyor registered under chapter one hundred and twelve deems it reasonably necessary to enter upon adjoining lands to make surveys of any description included under “Practice of land surveying”, as defined in section eighty-one D of said chapter one hundred and twelve, for any private person, excluding any public authority, public utility or railroad, the land surveyor or his authorized agents or employees may, after reasonable notice, enter upon lands, waters and premises, not including buildings, in the commonwealth, within a reasonable distance from the property line of the land being surveyed, and such entry shall not be deemed a trespass. Nothing in this act shall relieve a land surveyor of liability for damage caused by entry to adjoining property, by himself or his agents or employees.

We will typically knock on a door and ask to trespass to complete our survey, if the people resist we will send the notice by certified mail. When the receipt returns, so do we. Most people allow us to trespass, especially when we tell them we are attempting to honor the monuments at their corners.

In a contentious situation, we will send a notice by certified mail before we head to the site. Had one where the neighbors opposed the conversion of an old Inn to 7 condos. They complained extensively about the lack of buffer, but then chopped a good 3' off the hedge. We sent notice to stake the line from their side, they called and thanked us for the full notice.

I had one where the neighbor came into the office and complained to no end that we would waste her time providing her with a notice. She has a PO box and had to leave work early to sign the receipt. Her driveway and lawn were over the line and the reason for the survey was some additional pruning she and her husband had performed in order to expand their lawn.

The best story I have heard was from a friend. He surveyed a property, then returned to stake the line. The neighbors had a garden over the line and they attempted to obstruct his efforts to stake the line. He called the police who asked if they had seen him surveying a few days before. The policeman determined this constituted due notice and house arrested the neighbors until my friend completed his work. Oh yeah, his client was a real piece of work who was ripping up the garden as the stakes were set. He did his best to complete his work ASAP and leave.

We have been working on the base plans for an engineering firm to complete sewer designs. They are working for the Town, we are specifically working for the engineer. We start each segment of road with a little note describing how we will have crews all over the roads with a number and address. These are hand delivered or left in the door.

Sorry to be long winded.

The state of Georgia has no such law.

Bro Derek, We too are covered under the Surveyors Act.

Me thinks it is time our US colleagues got themselves a right enshrined in an Act..

RADU

Texans are mighty particular

as to who can come on their property. Surveyors have no rights whatever when it comes to accessing private property.

Texans are mighty particular

> as to who can come on their property. Surveyors have no rights whatever when it comes to accessing private property.

Seeing that Surveyors define the boundaries of private property in the first place, it would seem strange that a state would not grant right of entry to the surveyors of their state to conduct their duties. Also, how does that work in situations of eminent domain (where in a lot of cases the land owners are opposed to the project you are working on)? Can they just stop the project by having the surveyors arrested for trespass?

> I've got a draft format that I'm working on, when complete, I'll share it.
If you use any form other than the board/PLSO approved one you do so at your own risk. It may, or may not, be satisfactory to the board.

I sat in on several Oregon board meetings as an observer for PLSO in 2010-2011 and these ROE issues were constantly before the board. While the board members were mostly sympathetic to the surveyors they had adopted the position that they were obligated to enforce the letter of the law, which they did, if enthusiastically.

If you stand on your clients property and put the target rod on a corner monument, theoretically part of that rod is encroaching on the adjoiners. Perhaps several adjoiners. The board realizes the absurdity as it enforces the law. Just one more reason that a boundary survey in Oregon costs several times what an Oklahoma one does.

Edit the board approved wording at your own risk.

As a practice I try to send out letter for right of entry as well as knock on doors. The letter is pretty much the same as the PLSO door tags. I will email you an example of one of ours.

The big problem I have with the letters is coming up with addresses. Per ORS 672.047 we need to notify both the owner and occupant. Most counties will not give out the ownership information unless you go into the office. Even worse, some will give you the info if you pay them a couple of hundred as if you were doing a notification for planning action. If you ask me, this is something the PLSO need to work on.

> If you ask me, this is something the PLSO need to work on.
I'm in favor of repeal.

Texans are mighty particular

> > as to who can come on their property. Surveyors have no rights whatever when it comes to accessing private property.
>
> Seeing that Surveyors define the boundaries of private property in the first place, it would seem strange that a state would not grant right of entry to the surveyors of their state to conduct their duties. Also, how does that work in situations of eminent domain (where in a lot of cases the land owners are opposed to the project you are working on)? Can they just stop the project by having the surveyors arrested for trespass?

Currently Ohio has no right of entry for private surveyors. Professional Land Surveyors of Ohio has attempted to get a law passed for some time. Currently talking with organizations that opposed previous proposals to build a consensus proposal. I have no idea what that may look like in the future.

Eminent domain projects can be a problem. Public agencies have internal procedures for contacting property owners. These agencies have right of entry and consultants under contract can make use of the agency right of entry. Local law enforcement is frequently unaware of the agency or consultants position and may enforce trespass laws. The private consultant then backs off and contacts the public agency. After some time the legal system informs law enforcement. If conditions warrant the consultant may request that an law enforcement escort be provided during entry.

I have never been directly involved in one of these cases. Have had stories related that even with a police officer present getting the work done was difficult. Verbal distractions, vehicles moved to block line of site and removal of temporary points before they could be occupied being a few of the problems.

Mark,

I am beginning to have the same sentiments, even
though I was instrumental in getting the modification
to the ROE bill passed in 2011. At that time all we were asking
for was the ability to notify absentee owners by mail in order
to comply with the law, but, as often happens, the house committee
tweaked it to their liking, greatly complicating our good intentions.

In my 26 years of practice I have only been denied entry one
time, and there happened to be a "work around".

Scott

Make them prove that you are trespassing...

I'm not sure how often it happens in those states that don't have right of entry provisions in their state statutes that a surveyor gets charged with trespassing, but if I were charged I would insist it be proved that I was within the boundaries of said property.

RIght of Entry notice... Arizona

33-104. Right of person making land survey to enter lands; damages for injury to lands

A. Any person who is registered as a land surveyor under title 32, chapter 1 or who is an employee of the United States government may enter upon lands within this state to perform necessary work relating to land surveys, and may establish permanent monuments and erect the necessary signals and temporary observatories without committing unnecessary injury. The person making a survey under this section shall make every reasonable effort to give oral or written notice of the survey to the owner of the land before entering the land.

B. If the parties interested cannot agree upon the amount of damages caused thereby, either may petition the superior court to assess the damages.

C. The person entering lands for a land survey as provided by this section may tender to the injured party damages therefor, and if the damages finally assessed do not exceed the amount tendered, he shall recover costs. Otherwise the injured party shall recover costs.

D. Notwithstanding this section, the owner or owner's agent may deny entry to normally restricted or hazardous areas.

RIght of Entry notice... Arizona

> B. If the parties interested cannot agree upon the amount of damages caused thereby, either may petition the superior court to assess the damages.
So the land owner can force the surveyor into court in order to gain access. Awesome.

Further proof that there are more landowners who vote than Surveyors.

Make them prove that you are trespassing...

> I'm not sure how often it happens in those states that don't have right of entry provisions in their state statutes that a surveyor gets charged with trespassing, but if I were charged I would insist it be proved that I was within the boundaries of said property.

Have been told by others that law enforcement will presume the land owner knows where his lines are. In a private conflict the client and surveyor are forced to get a court order instructing that law enforcement escort the surveyor to observe and record any damage to property including fences, trees and crops as well as setting of monuments. Also was told it was a good idea to take photos of monuments and request the escorting officer to observe and keep a record of photos. This was in the days when film or Polaroid were the only options. Today I would provide the law officer with a thumb drive containing copies of the photos and request they be treated as evidence.

I wasn't looking at modifying any language in relation to the law....

In fact, the idea was to include a duplicate of the (current)statute on the back of the letter the same as the PLSO door hangers.

The idea again is to give advance notice, with the letter, hang a PLSO door hanger on all adjacent properties to the project as well during right of way location and topographic mapping, and/or construction staking.

The idea is the letter would serve as "first" notice to both owner, and occupant. The door hanger serving as "second" notice, along with a door knock, smile and answering of any questions.

Hopefully serving to satisfy the letter of the law for the state board.

And keeping my posterior in the cooler part of the frying pan, and not the fire...