Releasing plats with blank spaces

Many of the localities have blanks in the Owner's Consent and Dedication for the deed that will dedicate the subdivision plat. Call it convenience, call me unethical, I don't agree with you at all. I don't have enough time in my life to monitor the goings on with the plat once it is at the Courthouse, nor do I care to supervise the Clerk as they fill it in prior to recordation.
I take pride in my work, so it's not that I don't care, but Surveyors need to get over themselves sometimes. I have the original. That's all that is important. If I didn't put it on there I can't be held responsible.

Insert "To Be Filed"

Of course then the plat must be revised to include it unless the county stamps it. The note puts readers to search at or about the date of map filing to find the deed.

Shortcuts do not always save time and work.

Paul in PA

Well, I don't think it is a matter getting over myself, I am actually a pretty humble person, just have that feeling in my gut that I shouldn't sign off on something that I didn't personally put on the plat. I know the clerk's add their own stuff after the fact.

I appreciate your input though, sometimes we need others to tell us we worry to much.

Insert "To Be Filed"

Subdivision plats are the only case I can think of where blanks are left to be filled in by others as they sign and add specific details that only they can enter. The surveyor is only one of many signing the plat. The odds of getting everyone together for a signing party is virtually impossible.

From my state's regs

2. Plats and maps. The following information shall be shown on all plats or maps, or both, used to depict the results of the land boundary survey:

b. The name of the owner of record and deed book reference where
the acquisition was recorded.

You can always state the current owner's information and the purpose of the plat in notation form.

Sometimes we get caught up on the minute details that we miss the big picture. We can always protect ourselves by explaining what we are doing, and still meet the clients wishes and needs. They are the ones paying the bills.

Could you not just put who requested the survey and then both record owners (one being the person who requested the survey) and their deed references on it and then a note that the purpose of the survey was to determine the boundaries of each parcel for possible future merger?

> Could you not just put who requested the survey and then both record owners (one being the person who requested the survey) and their deed references on it and then a note that the purpose of the survey was to determine the boundaries of each parcel for possible future merger?

In this scenario the client wants to record the acquisition and then immediately record the plat of merger. At that point he is the owner and his deed reference is required on the merger plat.

I know it sounds silly, but it is one of those things that can kinda gnaw at the back of your brain. That is why I am asking here, the great surveyor collective brain.

😉

I have never been a big fan of hoping someone else would do their job and signing my name saying I had done my job. Once a map goes on record, it is there forever.

My policy is my seal and signature is the LAST thing that goes on a map before it is recorded. I do not give my maps to anyone else to record. I take the map to the register of deeds office and sign and seal in their office. This way I know it says what I want it to say and nothing else.

That does not mean we can't participate in one of those situations where blanks get filled in for deeds that are recorded about the same time as the map. It does mean I am there and personally fill in the blanks before the seal and signature go on.

Remember, we are responsible for what we sign and seal. I try to take the responsibility very seriously.

Larry P

PS: I never release a map showing corners as being set unless and until those corners are actually in the ground at the proper location. Don't see how anyone can say they have met their ethical obligation doing such as that.

Thanks, Larry, I feel the same as you. If I could be there at the time of the recording to fill in the blanks I would not have a problem with it.

I also agree about setting corners. You and I live in the same part of the country, and I know how often you have tried to set a corner only to have it fall in the middle of a big tree. I have worked for a couple of surveyors that didn't care if their plat said "Iron Set' and there was really a tree at that location.

Thanks for the responses, keep 'em coming

I will be on the road this evening, may not get back online, but I am interested in responses. I may pop back in once or twice this morning.

Thanks to everyone, this place is great!

Dennis Fenton

Ethical? I don't see even a remote connection.

Practical? Absolutely. In order to completely tie, say, a boundary agreement recorded in the title record with a survey filed concurrently in the surveyor's records, you should make reference to the recording information (preferably on each). Can't do that practically, however, because one has to be recorded first (I prefer recording the boundary agreement first). Then file the survey and fill in the blanks for the title record reference.

Is the cross-reference necessary? No. You can easily make a cross-reference to the documents by name, parties, etc. and skip the reference to the recording data. Just makes the next guys job a bit more difficult; they have to search for the document.

I think the problem (of leaving the blanks blank) arises when the surveyor expects that their client somehow knows how to record the documents. They typically don't. Without specific written instructions on which document to record first, what order to record them, where to record them and what information to put in which blanks and when, they'll screw it up 9 times out of 10. I find it's just easier to record them myself.

Ethical? I still don't see any connection. Good business practice is what I see.

JBS

I always hand stamp and sign my plans, even if it's multiple copies of a thick set of drawings - and the seal block has a note on it that says something along the lines of "this plan not valid without original hand-affixed seal and signature".

I've probably "hand-stamped" and signed a survey 5 times in the past 10 years. Digital signatures are the way to go. Saves paper, too.

JBS

Question: Are speaking about a "survey" or a "subdivision plat" ?

IMHO it only opens you up to negative exposure.

When I was doing ALTA surveys regularly, I had a note next to my stamp that read: "Not valid without original signature". I would sign with a red pen. Sure, someone could white that out and make copies, but it still afforded me some level of security and served as a warning.

If you were signing papers for a loan and there were blank spaces on the agreement where the loan amount was supposed to be filled in, would you sign it?

Just some food for thought. 🙂

> I have seen some surveyors that would release signed plats that contained blank spaces, specifically blank spaces for a deed reference to a deed that has not been recorded yet. An example being the client is purchasing some land and wants to merge that land with a lot the client already owns. They want to do all the transactions on the same day, record the deed for purchase, fill in the blanks on the merger plat with the newly acquired deed reference, and then record the merger.
>
> I can understand how convenient that can be to the client, but is it ethical for a surveyor to sign and release a plat with blanks?
>
> I would say no, it isn't ethical, but does that just make me overly cautious?

I encourage the practice, it makes for a cleaner and clearer record.

If the map/plat will stand on it's own without the added data I see no problem at all... in many California Counties and Cities it is quite common to leave blanks for document recording numbers and dates, many County Recorders will go out of their way to make sequential recordings for us and enter the needed data, unfortunately some do not.

as JBStahl said "Ethical? I don't see even a remote connection."

It's pretty common around here. For instance, when a subdivision is approved there is typically a statement of conditions of planning board approval and a Covenant for road construction. These two documents are recorded when the plan is recorded and we leave a space for the recording information of the documents the plan.

Or, I just did a boundary line agreement plan and the attorney wanted space on the plan to reference the cross deeds..

Also, the registry personal themselves will add notes in the plans margins that will reference other information of record...

> I've probably "hand-stamped" and signed a survey 5 times in the past 10 years. Digital signatures are the way to go. Saves paper, too.
>
> JBS

Actual digital signatures, tied to a mechanism that voids the signature if the document is modified or if a derivative product is generated from it is a potential solution, but I personally don't agree with CAD blocks with seal and/or simple scanned signatures, which I feel are relinquishing control of your work product and opening yourself to downstream liability and abuse of the document.