I got a contract to map all the improvements inside the railroad fee ownership line. They we adamant that no corners would be set or a survey recorded. Now they come back and want that line marked without benefit of a recorded survey. In our state (Washington) you can only stake a line between monuments of record to protect the public. I'm interested, are any of you licensed in a state which will let you mark a property line without setting corners? They told me I was the first one to object to this practice as "we have surveyors do it all the time".
If you mark both ends of the line isn't that the same as setting the corners? What are you setting? Something permanent?
In metes and bounds land, surveys don't get recorded. In NJ you are required to set corners if you survey a property. However, you can obtain a waiver and direction not to set corner markers from the ultimate user of the property. This practice is fairly common, which I hate. I always set the corners and never ask for the waiver. It's annoying to go out and not find any corners.
To your point, I guess there are less regulations on that here, so one could stake the property line without setting the corners I suppose. As I indicated earlier though if you set the ends of the lines that would be the same as setting the corners.
> I got a contract to map all the improvements inside the railroad fee ownership line. They we adamant that no corners would be set or a survey recorded. Now they come back and want that line marked without benefit of a recorded survey. In our state (Washington) you can only stake a line between monuments of record to protect the public. I'm interested, are any of you licensed in a state which will let you mark a property line without setting corners? They told me I was the first one to object to this practice as "we have surveyors do it all the time".
Work up a proper contract amendment for your all of the extra work involved and required by State statutes and send it to them as this is seems to be above and beyond what you signed up for.
I would never set points on line along a railroad right of way without a properly executed and documented record of survey. It may be different in a subdivision, but a RR ROW is just asking for trouble.
I would NEVER do that...
"In metes and bounds land, surveys don't get recorded."
Please explain...
In New Jersey and New York only subdivision plats are recorded. There is no method to record individual surveys.
It is my understanding that none of the Colonial States provide a method for the recording of individual surveys (maybe Massachusetts Land Court Surveys could be considered an exception). I'm sure someone will let me know if I'm wrong. 😛
> In New Jersey and New York only subdivision plats are recorded. There is no method to record individual surveys.
>
> It is my understanding that none of the Colonial States provide a method for the recording of individual surveys (maybe Massachusetts Land Court Surveys could be considered an exception). I'm sure someone will let me know if I'm wrong. 😛
Not true in VA. Surveys can be recorded and the local circuit court clerk sets the standards, but they are pretty low. In my home county, we just prepare a one sheet "certificate of owners" that has some minor info on it and then it is signed by the current owner and then notarized and the plat can be recorded. Sometimes that "certificate" can even be included on the face of the plat. In essence, the surveyor can't record the survey without the owners signature.
In a neighboring county, you don't even need that sheet. Surveyors can record.
Standard plat recording sizes in my area of VA are 8.5" X 11", 11" X 17" and 17" X 22"
I believe in WV surveyors can record without the land owners signature as well, but I'm not 100% sure of that. Hopefully David Lee can tell about that.
Carl
OK, you're wrong-
I can think of several counties in upstate NY wherein maps other than subdivisions can be, and are, recorded.
SS
Jim,
YOU answered what I was looking for. The contract came from a company in AZ and the railroad is in WA. That is where the conflict was created.
OK, you're wrong-
I only do very occasional work in Rockland and Orange Counties and have never run into any recorded surveys in those Counties. New York is very different from New Jersey. In New York the recording regulations are county by county. In New Jersey they are State Law.
OK, you're wrong-
In Connecticut and Massachusetts a survey for a lot, or land surveys may be recorded in the same office (Town or County) as deeds but in a map index book not the deed book.
There was a post a while back taking a poll of what states allowed the recording of surveys and which states did not. Unfortunately most of the respondents were from PLS States.
It would be interesting to know what can be recorded for all 50 States. Subdivisions/Surveys/Corner Records
Here in MA plans get recorded if:
1) A new subdivision is proposed showing new lots and proposed ways (this applies to both recorded and registered land)
2) A subdivision of land is proposed showing new lots on existing ways (ANR)
3) A plan showing an existing boundary is put on record (81X), this is not typically required, only at the request of the owner.
I believe that when we conduct a boundary stakeout, we are supposed to furnish the client with a plan, but this can be just a simple sketch plan for the clients records, and does not need to be recorded.
As far as setting monumentation, the old 250CMR (our standards of practice) said something like "...substantial monuments should be set providing permanency consistent with the terrain..." A little vague in my opinion.
But thankfully, 250CMR was just updated...and made more vague, so there ya go.
-V
The question (stated a different way) is not if you record, but are you allowed to mark a property line that does not have monuments at each end or along the line. Recording is for due public notice the line has been determined. I see the SNAFU has been created by the contractor, from a state (AZ) which does not record, wanting to make sure there would not be a recorded document showing how the boundary was determined.Strange, but they called me to make sure it wouldn't be recorded now they want the line staked and there are buildings involved. I will explain it to them.
In NH and ME boundary surveys can be recorded at the registry, in VT they can be recorded at the town. No requirement though, except for subdivisions.
In Illinois I believe the standards of practice say you set property corners unless the client requests otherwise. So if they don't want them set, I think it would be OK in Illinois, but I've never done it nor has anyone requested it. Illinois is also a non-recording state, but surveys can be recorded if you want.
Setting points on a property or right-of-way line and not at points of intersection or corners could appear to be a dance around the rules that govern us here in WA. I wouldn't do it.
For those who are not from the other Washington, our Survey Recording Act is Chapter 58.09 RCW
I read this chapter regularly and settle at section 58.09.140 from time to time: Noncompliance with any provision of this chapter, as it now exists or may hereafter be amended, shall constitute grounds for revocation of a land surveyor's authorization to practice the profession of land surveying and as further set forth under RCW 18.43.105 and 18.43.110.
This grounds me adequately in as much as it reminds me that I control the survey, mapping and recording. Not my client.
Respectfully,
