I dealt with a small overlap a year or so ago and before I'd gotten involved the church trustees that I was dealing with had approached the county planning department about it. So, at their request, I submitted the plat as a boundary line adjustment/revision/vacation and adding their stamp adds a sense of validity to it. Now, I work with a WONDERFUL planning department, yours may not be as easy to deal with. But, if you work well with them, you may want to consider submitting through their office. I understand that there might be a myriad of reasons why not to, but if it is easy and cheap, what's the harm? Just a suggestion, nothing more, nothing less.
It sounds like you did a very thorough and professional job. 🙂
Carl
Show the facts as you have determined. The original property line as determined by the intent of the parties is still there somewhere and if you believe you found it, by using all your powers as a Professional Surveyor , then map it and put it on record for all to see and use. This is why we are Registered as Professionals and why people come to a Surveyor for help . Embrace these kind of jobs it not all about the math , its the evidence you find from the past and how you apply the deed .
The large discrepancy you have with the other surveyor is bit strange .
Make sure you did not miss an out in the chain of Title or something. Look for Senior rights before you start moving stuff around .
The large discrepancy you have with the other surveyor is bit strange.
Make sure you did not miss an out in the chain of Title or something. Look for Senior rights before you start moving stuff around.
I did second guess myself several times during the course of performing the survey, because of all the discrepancies, and then I checked myself again, rechecked and rechecked again. The legal description for my client's property prior to the previously recorded survey was "... 3/8 undivided interest in a certain parcel of land conveyed to grantor by deed ...". The deed prior to that was bound by adjoiners, and the deeds prior to that had the same description back until the land was part of a land grant, and most of the adjoiners chain of title went back into the same land grant. This property is in a very rural area of East Tennessee where land does not changes hands very often, and property is transferred more times than not without the benefit of a survey being performed. There is no planning commission in this area and no county surveyor. Some adjoiners had had surveys performed prior to my client's previous survey, and my client's previous survey agreed for the most part with those. The areas where adjoiners did not have clear and concise legal descriptions or surveys are the areas that I found the most discrepancies between what the survey showed and what the adjoiners deeds called for. The adjoiner's line I mentioned being +/-5,550' did have a good legal description, but the previous surveyor held a painted line rather than running that line out to look for and locate actual corners, and that line is also an original grant line (locating that helped tremendously with properly placing several adjoiners). It just took more time to gather evidence in the field, lots of deed research, talking with owners, etc., but it was doable. I think the previous surveyor didn't take the time to do it correctly when he surveyed the property ... trying to get in and out as quickly as possible to get paid.
Thank you very much 🙂
I would gladly submit the plat to a planning commission, but there isn't one in the area where this property is located, which is in a very rural area of East Tennessee. Several years ago, there were state planners appointed to the areas that did not have planning departments, but that is no longer the case. I do deal with planning departments in other areas close by and have talked with acquaintances there regarding this property ... if this property was in your jurisdiction, how would you have me handle this?
We Get Paid To Use Facts And Form A Opinion
Yes, "Gross Error" is an opinion and from the information given the Facts support it.
Larry, do you have a more politically correct way to describe it?
Paul in PA
We are our worst enemy.
I would record the plat and see about getting a Deed of Correction filed, which would reference the plat. Of course, if there are bankers involved in this it could get complicated. If your survey is in accordance with the deeds and the monuments on the ground, there is no need for any sort of agreement between the parties.
Property tax ramifications?
As a non-surveyor I was wondering, how would this correction affect the property taxes of both owners? Would filing new/corrected deeds alert the assessors? I realize this may differ around the country.
Thanks!
Melita
Luckily there are no bankers involved with the properties affected.
Because the adjoining owner's legal description does not define actual angles/distances, and my client's legal description prior to the previous survey is bounded by adjoiners only, we have chosen to show an agreed upon property line between the two properties on the plat to established the exact location of their common line. The plat will also have an owner's certification signed by the current owners stating that they are in agreement with the location as shown. This will benefit not only the current owners, but also future owners of the properties and any future surveyors.
A wrong survey, record or not, cannot change the existing boundaries. Monument the correct deed calls. Show the bogas survey evidence as rejected. Write a narative giving the essential facts and explanations that will help all who follow your footsteps. No new agreement should be needed.
> Thank you very much 🙂
>
> I would gladly submit the plat to a planning commission, but there isn't one in the area where this property is located, which is in a very rural area of East Tennessee. Several years ago, there were state planners appointed to the areas that did not have planning departments, but that is no longer the case. I do deal with planning departments in other areas close by and have talked with acquaintances there regarding this property ... if this property was in your jurisdiction, how would you have me handle this?
Well, that's interesting. I don't deal with any jurisdictions that don't have some sort of approval process, so I don't really know. Basically I was saying submit it to whoever approves divisions/adjustments, but if that county doesn't have one... the point is kinda moot.
And to be clear, my county has a Planning Department (which handles small divisions and adjustments administratively) and a Planning Commission that deals with larger subdivisions and variances and such and work in conjunction with the PD. The PC is a board of volunteer citizens while the PD are employees of the county. I just wanted to make that clear. In one very rural neighboring county, the building inspector used to handle the division issues, but they were cosmetic, at best.
Carl
EDIT: I think I misread that at first. If it were in my jurisdiction, I'd prepare a plat, stating all the historical evidence and then state a source of title for both parties, have the parties sign the plat (notarized of course), then the county would approve (sign/stamp) it. Then (in this case), I'd probably have them take it to a lawyer and have either Deeds of Correction or Deeds of Confirmation done (now being done quite a bit here) for each party and have the plat recorded with one or each.
I'm not disagreeing with the need for a current survey to depict the boundaries, I'm disagreeing with the need of the parties to "agree" to the boundary when it isn't necessary. I suppose it wouldn't hurt, but I don't believe it is necessary as long as the plat is put on record.
I agree with this completely. Many times I have told clients that a jacked up survey does not change title. I had one here a while back where the previous surveyor had screwed up the survey to the benefit of the adjoiner. They were insistant that my client's deed only went to a certain point, and they (adjoiners) owned past that, even though their deed did not call for that property (a gore, if you will).
I kind of read all the above and all I can say is everybody is right IMO. You are right in raising a red flag. Careful to raise two, even if they are small. 😉
I'm not fully with the crowd of just citing deeds and calling people off, cash the check, and move on though. I'd rather save the day and be the hero.
From what I read it seems both parties are at least in somewhat of an agreement. Not the case in too many situations. Client is along the lines of "do what is right, and if that's what she owns... so be it". Adjoiner always thought it was theirs in the first place. Not many lay persons can even read a deed, let alone know the consequences and how it fits the earths surface. I'd think a deed describing a line as "center of the hollow" is gospel. Could be some Jr/Sr rights issues involved too.
Sounds like a classic scenario for some kind of re-plat and/or property line adjustment where all parties agree. If they have 15 or 16 acres vs 20, could be 25, so be it. Welcome to the club, happens all the time in Gov't lots, etc. Then you'll be that hero.
I've run across some older recorded plats that weren't even good enough for toilet paper. The monuments didn't fit the numbers, let alone descriptions. At least the guy recorded it, so you have something
Good luck
I agree on this. There is no reason for a boundary agreement because the line isn't being disputed. You've done your homework and determined where the deeded boundary is truly located. If it were my survey, I would show all of the lines on your plat, even the lines from the previous survey. But I would draw the shoddy surveyor's lines with a light pen weight and label them something like "line as shown on previous survey performed by.... etc" and then bold up the correct lines and annotate them as "line by deed (DB XXX, PG XXX)" and include the old fences and such to back up your survey.
You did a good job on this one though. Its sad that many surveyors refuse to do their homework.
