I am going to apologize upfront ... this is long
When my client first contacted me about doing a survey on his property, he informed me that the previous owner had a survey performed in 1999, which was recorded, and my client's deed referenced. After purchasing the property (+/- 280 acres), my client was walking the property when an adjoiner informed him that he was actually on her property. My job was to verify if the previous survey was correct.
The adjoiner's deed does not have distances, but does have general directions and calls for "deep in the hollow", "with the hollow to the top of a high ridge", etc. containing 20 acres, more or less.
The previously recorded survey showed my client's property going around the adjoiner's in a box-type pattern, which was nothing more than the limits of where she mows the yard, in essence leaving her with +/- 3 acres ... no where near a deep hollow, the top of the high ridge, or any resemblance whatsoever of what her deed called for. The surveyor is now deceased, so I cannot call him to ask WTH was he doing! :-S He apparently did NOT look at the adjoiner's deed when he performed the survey. Sorry about the rant .. so anyway, as I'm doing the fieldwork, I find old fencing (in a deep hollow), which then runs with the hollow to the top of a high ridge ... imagine that! It is the same type of fencing that I found along other property lines of my client's. And if this IS the hollow the adjoiner's deed calls for, that calculated area is +/- 15.5 acres ... much closer to the 20 acres her deed calls for rather than the 3 acres. This is also where she always understood her property line to be .. she inherited the property from her parents being born and raised there.
Problem #2 with the previous survey ...
When I get to the top of the high ridge with the old fencing (running NE), I then need to find another adjoiner's line that runs SE. My client's line runs approx. 1,470' along this common line, while that adjoiner's deed calls for his line to be approx. 5,550' ... one long straight line. The previously recorded survey called for a "marked and painted line found" ... no monumentation found at all, and based on this, it created an "L" in the adjoiner's line. Yes ... this was a very interesting and fun job!!! So .... what do I do? I ran the 5,550' line out from one end to another and guess what I found ... MONUMENTATION that coincided with the adjoiner's deed, which was off the "marked and painted line found" roughly 100' ... just for your info, I found paint in less than 1/4 of the area the previous surveyor noted. Talking with that adjoiner, he told me he started painting but got worried that he might be way off line and stopped. WOW ... I began questioning everything on the previous survey!
Now ... after going over everything with my client ... research information, fieldwork, what I was told regarding the property by adjoiners, etc., my client just wants to do the right thing and give the lady back what he feels is rightfully hers. She became aware of the previous survey several years after it had been performed and had accepted the thought that she had "lost" most of her property. This is not a property dispute where the owners are fighting, retaining lawyers, etc. These are just good, down-to-earth country folks trying to resolve the problem between themselves. I am now drawing a map, which will be recorded, showing a boundary line agreement between the parties, but really we are just correcting the mistakes made by the previous surveyor, but I want my survey to be very clear in regard to adjusting the property lines back to their rightful places. Any suggestions on how to note all of this?
I will apologize again for this being SOOOO long, but I knew for anyone to really help me out, they would need the whole story :excruciating:
I tend to place a label on each course of my map briefly describing the basis of its existence. If a more wordy explanation is warranted then that label will refer to my notes section by number wherein I will give the longer explanation. In your case it sounds like you will have a bit of explaining to do
Licensed Land Surveyor
Finger Lakes Region, Upstate New York
Note the discrepancies with and deficiencies of the prior survey. Place a narrative on the map outlining the evidence and your conclusions. Don't go out of your way to slam anyone but don't hide important facts to be 'nice'. Not much else you can do...
Your Survey Should Cite The Record Description You Followed
and note that the previously recorded map was in "Gross Error" to the record.
Make sure your metes and bounds that go to found monuments mention the source of that monument's record. It will be a longer than normal description but you want to IDIOT PROOF the New/Old description, from whatever parcel is appropriate.
In other words the truth comes from many directions.
Paul in PA
> I am now drawing a map, which will be recorded, showing a boundary line agreement between the parties, but really we are just correcting the mistakes made by the previous surveyor, but I want my survey to be very clear in regard to adjusting the property lines back to their rightful places. Any suggestions on how to note all of this?
From what you relate, this seems to be a perfectly straight-forward exercise. Just trace title back and relate the lines you've found back to the correct instruments in the chain of title. What did your client's grantor actually own, in other words? The description based upon the bum survey was insufficient to convey land that the grantor didn't own and likewise (I assume) in your state the accidental misdescription of a boundary cannot defeat the grantor's stated intention to convey all of a tract.
In other words, a particular line is properly described as the line of the XYZ tract as described in [reference relevant conveyance], not as surveyed by Bum & Associates.
Reinstatement report detailing what I adopted, what I didn't and why I didn't.
Definitely reference all the pieces of title, that touch your client, and make a point table, with point numbers, or letters, so that the narrative, makes sense to the next surveyor, and THUS will rely on your work. Your motive is to ESTABLISH all the points, on the boundary, so that all future surveyors will buy into your survey, wholesale.
This makes your survey have much value, and builds value into your product.
Nate
I really appreciate all the great advise! I am thinking I will incorporate everyone's advise into the final plat in regard to the notes, the "Gross Error" and discrepancies of the prior survey, the record information for the basis of property lines, the chain of title, etc. I do not want to slam the previous surveyor in any way, especially since he is now deceased and cannot defend himself, but I will state the facts of my findings. I enjoy the challenging jobs, such as this one, because it keeps me on my toes and keeps the wheels turning in my head 😉
YES!!! That is exactly what I'm trying to do. Determine the best way for my survey to depict clearly the different issues and how those issues were resolved, without the next surveyor having to scratch his head for days on end. Thank you VERY much!!!
Do the survey plat as you normally would, showing what you found, held, why you held what you did. Have your client and adjorners sign the plat showing they are in agreement with it (hopefully they are), and file the plat in the register's office. Recommend to your client to have a correction deed made, refering to your survey. Keep it professional, and the surveyors following you will find the information, and understand what you did. Propably the most importsnt thing is filing the correction deed to clean up the title.
Sounds like some of the fun I've had over the years. You have mail with a link to an example of my solution in 1981. Although I have learned a few things since then my approach would still be much the same.
As others have stated show everything you found, what you held and what you rejected. Also site the source of all written records used and summarize your conclusion both with a simple statement and a clear graphic of the resulting boundaries.
This is a drawing that I hope you'll post for us all to see when you're done with it.
Jeff
My take would be to show the agreed upon boundary bold and have the owners sign a certification that they accept the agreed upon boundary as shown on this survey. Reference and show the previously filed survey as dashed and show the discrepancies. Show all field evidence and note adjoiners statement that he painted said line in error.
Do Not Just Recommend Refiling The Deed. Rewrite It
Your "New Description" should thoroughly follow your survey. Not just a call to a found monument, but to a "found monument as described in Deed Book 772, Page 32, termination of seventh course." Yes it will be long, but the point is to recreate your survey map in words, should your survey and description become separated in the future. The description should be able to stand alone.
The point is to allow the future surveyors to not just follow in your physical footsteps, but in your "Mental Footsteps" as well.
It is called redundancy and we are redundant in other ways in the regular course of our survey work.
I would not hesitate, perhaps this is second nature to surveyors in non filing states.
Your map should show rejected information, your description may not need to reference any rejected information.
Paul in PA
Stick with stating facts. Labeling something as Gross Error is not a fact, it is an opinion. What you found is a fact. What is described in the adjoiners deeds is fact. The evidence of old fences, monuments and painted trees are fact.
In this way you avoid the issue of besmirching the previous surveyor and you also do your duty.
Also, unless and until you can refer to recorded documents that describe lines as being "agreed" you should not describe them as such on your plat.
Larry P
I dealt with a small overlap a year or so ago and before I'd gotten involved the church trustees that I was dealing with had approached the county planning department about it. So, at their request, I submitted the plat as a boundary line adjustment/revision/vacation and adding their stamp adds a sense of validity to it. Now, I work with a WONDERFUL planning department, yours may not be as easy to deal with. But, if you work well with them, you may want to consider submitting through their office. I understand that there might be a myriad of reasons why not to, but if it is easy and cheap, what's the harm? Just a suggestion, nothing more, nothing less.
It sounds like you did a very thorough and professional job. 🙂
Carl
Show the facts as you have determined. The original property line as determined by the intent of the parties is still there somewhere and if you believe you found it, by using all your powers as a Professional Surveyor , then map it and put it on record for all to see and use. This is why we are Registered as Professionals and why people come to a Surveyor for help . Embrace these kind of jobs it not all about the math , its the evidence you find from the past and how you apply the deed .
The large discrepancy you have with the other surveyor is bit strange .
Make sure you did not miss an out in the chain of Title or something. Look for Senior rights before you start moving stuff around .
The large discrepancy you have with the other surveyor is bit strange.
Make sure you did not miss an out in the chain of Title or something. Look for Senior rights before you start moving stuff around.
I did second guess myself several times during the course of performing the survey, because of all the discrepancies, and then I checked myself again, rechecked and rechecked again. The legal description for my client's property prior to the previously recorded survey was "... 3/8 undivided interest in a certain parcel of land conveyed to grantor by deed ...". The deed prior to that was bound by adjoiners, and the deeds prior to that had the same description back until the land was part of a land grant, and most of the adjoiners chain of title went back into the same land grant. This property is in a very rural area of East Tennessee where land does not changes hands very often, and property is transferred more times than not without the benefit of a survey being performed. There is no planning commission in this area and no county surveyor. Some adjoiners had had surveys performed prior to my client's previous survey, and my client's previous survey agreed for the most part with those. The areas where adjoiners did not have clear and concise legal descriptions or surveys are the areas that I found the most discrepancies between what the survey showed and what the adjoiners deeds called for. The adjoiner's line I mentioned being +/-5,550' did have a good legal description, but the previous surveyor held a painted line rather than running that line out to look for and locate actual corners, and that line is also an original grant line (locating that helped tremendously with properly placing several adjoiners). It just took more time to gather evidence in the field, lots of deed research, talking with owners, etc., but it was doable. I think the previous surveyor didn't take the time to do it correctly when he surveyed the property ... trying to get in and out as quickly as possible to get paid.
Thank you very much 🙂
I would gladly submit the plat to a planning commission, but there isn't one in the area where this property is located, which is in a very rural area of East Tennessee. Several years ago, there were state planners appointed to the areas that did not have planning departments, but that is no longer the case. I do deal with planning departments in other areas close by and have talked with acquaintances there regarding this property ... if this property was in your jurisdiction, how would you have me handle this?
We Get Paid To Use Facts And Form A Opinion
Yes, "Gross Error" is an opinion and from the information given the Facts support it.
Larry, do you have a more politically correct way to describe it?
Paul in PA