Preparation of Preliminary Plats

Basically no state restrictions on who can prepare what we call "Tentative Maps", being the planning map showing roughly how the subdivider intends to have the lots created. Local requirements for map content may move it into the realm of having to be prepared by either a PLS or a PE. Some local governments want what almost amounts to en engineering design document, showing not only proposed lot configuration, but also some proposed infrastructure. That moves into the sole domain of a PE.

Final plats must be prepared under the direction of a PLS (or a PE licensed before 1982).

That is that way it works here - but it makes sense.
It really is a conceptual thing.

You start with a concept an then deal with reality.
They might say it is zoned wrong or something... Then
you know what you are up against. It saves money
in the end.

I frustrates me too but is a necessary evil.

I frustrates me too but is a necessary evil.

I meant "It frustrates me too but is a necessary evil."
Take that as you will;)
But it wasn't far off base...
I frustrates me sometimes:)

oh no no no you aren't getting out of that freudian slip 😉

> Are your state regulations definitive on whether an engineer can or cannot prepare plats of subdivision, in a preliminary status or title?

Yes & No. The act doesn't specifically state this (engineers cannot prepare), but it does state: The preliminary plat shall be drawn to a scale of not more than 200 feet to 1 inch and may be an original drawing or reproduction, on unbacked paper. It shall contain proper identification of the parcel of land to be divided, the name of the plat and proposed division of the land, the name and address of the proprietor and the name, address and seal of the surveyor who prepared it, all legibly printed or typewritten.

and (v) “Surveyor” means a professional surveyor licensed under article 20 of the occupational code, Act No. 299 of the Public Acts of 1980, being sections 339.2001 to 339.2014 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

> Are our state's regulations difinitive enough to the engineers that the preparation of ANY mapping or lines defining proposed divisions of land, with ties to adjoining properties, rights of way, easements and sections lines (and corners) falls under the definition of land surveying?

Yes. The practice of professional surveying includes all of the following:
(i) Land surveying that is the surveying of an area for its correct determination or description for its conveyance, or for the establishment or reestablishment of a land boundary and the designing or design coordination of the plotting of land and the subdivision of land...

- You didn't list whether or not your state has definitive regulations in this regard.

A surveyor has to confirm the accuracy of the record before any proposed subdivision can be designed. That is simple common sense.

There was a problem caused by an inaccurate description created by a lawyer that didn't match the boundaries established by the owners. It seema tht a young couple and their parents bought the NE 1/4 of a section. With three women in the house, problems arose. So, one of the inlaws took a 1320'+/- rectangle from the northeast corner for their own with the family marking off the boundary with 1/4 mile fence rolls. The lawyer in the county seat put the NE 1/4 of the NE 1/4 on the deed as the legal description but the 1/4 was long north to south. Fast forward 120 years and a developer was going to develop the 'NE 1/4 of the NE 1/4' using calculated boundaries because the 1/4's and NE corner monuments were in and had good state plane co-ords. long story short: the south line of the proposed plat was way below the south fence line that was the legal boundary.

The deed defines the area of search for the surveyor and the surveyor determines the location of the legal boundaries from the physical evidence.

Richard Schaut

>With three women in the house, problems arose.

Ain't it the truth.

I practice in the State of Illinois (and Iowa). ...and to borrow from the statutes for defining both professions of Land Surveyor and Engineer in Illinois:

under Land Surveyor, its definition of practice....the determination and physical protraction of land boundaries...preparation of legal descriptions and plats, platting of lands and subdivisions, preparing descriptions for th edetermination of titel or real property...involving the lengths and direction of boundary lines, labeling designating, naming or otherwise identifying legal lines on any plat, map, exhibit...providing a sketch, map, plat, report or other document which indicates land boundaries....locating, relocating, establishing or re-establishing, retracing, laying out, or staking of the location, alignment or elevation of any proposed improvements whose location is dependent upon property lines.....preparing or attesting to the accuracy of a map or plat showing the land boundaries.

under Engineer, its definition of practice ..."land development"... "engineering surevys of sites and topography specific to a design, NOT INCLUDING LAND BOUNDARY ESTABLISHMENT"

A argument being made by the Engineering side of the world is that a preliminary plat is a concept, not for the conveyance of property.

My argument is the statute does not split hairs on preliminary and final plats, both make determinations of boundaries, locations of right of ways and section lines and corners. A preliminary plat is not simply an exhibit for show and tell.......it is an instrument by which owners, developers and local review boards make decisions based upon its accuracy.

I am not saying an engineer or technician can't assist in the preparation of preliminary plats, just that they must do so under the "direct supervision" of a licensed land surveyor.

> My argument is the statute does not split hairs on preliminary and final plats, both make determinations of boundaries, locations of right of ways and section lines and corners. A preliminary plat is not simply an exhibit for show and tell.......it is an instrument by which owners, developers and local review boards make decisions based upon its accuracy.
>
> I am not saying an engineer or technician can't assist in the preparation of preliminary plats, just that they must do so under the "direct supervision" of a licensed land surveyor.

I totally agree. The statute succinctly states several times over anything to do with "preparation of legal descriptions and plats, platting of lands and subdivisions,..." (etc.) falls under the practice of surveying. Engineers are being a little cavalier in their 'just a concept' argument, since clearly, establishing land boundaries is involved - proposed or not. I don't think they would look too favorably on surveyors doing/submitting preliminary stormwater plans/designs (even though many surveyors very easily could). The concern is ethical, and also towards why is some pencilneck engineer taking billable hours away from a surveyor by doing work defined by statute to be surveying?

Some agencies around here allow what we call tentative maps to be prepared by the landowners, their brother-in-law, a monkey, whatever, with no surveyor or engineer involved at all. Other agencies require so much up-front engineering design that civil engineers are the only people that can really process a complete package through the application and hearing process. The tentative maps don't have to be based on an accurate boundary survey but I've been stuck trying to complete the process of a final map where the approved tentative just doesn't work when the boundary is established. When I do a tentative map, I do the boundary work at that stage so there are no surprises later.

I don't think taking an assessor's plat cartoon of the property and drawing some proposed new parcel lines on it really constitutes surveying, and the applicants can save substantial money doing it themselves but it makes the surveyor's job harder and more expensive to clean up their mess later.