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Pointless Plats and corner records

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aliquot
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I know most of the posters here do a better job, but I am continually frustrated and embraced for our profession. I thought that with more stringent education requirements the situation would improve, but it''s not.?ÿ

A corner record that reports setting a new marker for a corner but leaves the evidence found and/or the method used sections blank is close to worthless to me.

A "boundary survey"?ÿ that only shows set corners, or have labeled a distant control point by name with no description, and no bearing or distance to the subject property is worthless to me.

I can't rely on them, because I cant tell a judge, or a land owner, or a bureaucrat,?ÿ why those positions are correct.

Most states require this information to be shown. Why do so many surveyors have so little pride in their work that they can't make an effort to explain their reasoning. How can you take money from a client and give them a product that can not defend itself against any difference of opinion? I am happy to accept a previous surveyors work, even if it is not what I would have done, as long as it is reasonable. When the required information is missing they are asking me to accept their work, "because they said so". That does not cut it. That requires me to take responsibility for their mysterious?ÿ work.?ÿ

?ÿ


 
Posted : December 24, 2017 12:18 pm
a-harris
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Most every surveyor has a short list of who we accept at face value for one reason or another.

I would recommend to talk to other surveyors, bring the topic to discussion at Association meetings and never keep it bottled up, share the discovery of that an any other problem.

Some people are in the mind that they can make their own rules and sidestep rules and even make up some of their own.

Many times the individual responsible for not producing a proper completed survey will see their wrong and improve their work.

I have spent the last two months following someone (still trying to find who the party actually is) that has been responsible for pin cushion after pin cushion, creating his own boundaries from eyeball rather than recorded descriptions with multiples of evidence on the ground,?ÿ make no reference to adjoining property owners and recordings and does not set monuments with identifying caps.

I credit this person and perhaps others that have many prospective clients asking and wanting something within a foot and all stress they do not actually need anything with a signature.

?


 
Posted : December 24, 2017 2:15 pm
aliquot
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I can't even take the best modern surveyor at face value. I don't think even the best are immune from occasional bad decisions, or overlooked evidence.?ÿ

This kind of product makes it hard to present ourselves as?ÿ professional experts, and not just a technical branch of engineering. The reason we are licenced is not because we know how to measure things and calculate a closure. We need to know how to do those things to do our jobs, but if we are hired for a professional service and provide a technical product, our time may soon be up.?ÿ


 
Posted : December 24, 2017 4:40 pm
Williwaw
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I can certainly relate to your frustration, but it's nothing new. Many of the older plats I have to work with contain zero ties to adjoiners, nor make reference to what was recovered and used to derive the stated positions. Over the years I've developed a short list of the worst transgressors and most have since retired or died. The prevailing attitude has been that those ties and descriptions are their proprietary information and they will be damned if they are going to give any information away that might result in their competitive lock on that area being diminished or provide anyone with the means to evaluate their work without going to the pains that they supposably did, or not.


Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.

 
Posted : December 24, 2017 5:38 pm
nate-the-surveyor
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?ÿThe prevailing attitude has been that those ties and descriptions are their proprietary information and they will be damned if they are going to give any information away that might result in their competitive lock on that area being diminished or provide anyone with the means to evaluate their work without going to the pains that they supposably did, or ndot.

Willie, you know it's true!

?ÿ


 
Posted : December 24, 2017 5:45 pm

aliquot
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Posted by: Williwaw

I can certainly relate to your frustration, but it's nothing new. Many of the older plats I have to work with contain zero ties to adjoiners, nor make reference to what was recovered and used to derive the stated positions. Over the years I've developed a short list of the worst transgressors and most have since retired or died. The prevailing attitude has been that those ties and descriptions are their proprietary information and they will be damned if they are going to give any information away that might result in their competitive lock on that area being diminished or provide anyone with the means to evaluate their work without going to the pains that they supposably did, or not.

You are right, its not a big problem with most of the younger surveyors in Alaska, but it is in other states I am familiar with. I think the much maligned platting authorities help train Alaska surveyors to show their work.?ÿ


 
Posted : December 26, 2017 12:19 pm
spmpls
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As our State Geodetic Coordinator, I regularly get contacted regarding monument preservation/perpetuation. Several months ago I was contacted regarding the resetting of a NGS NAVD88 leveled bench mark that was imperiled by construction. Upon further communication, I find out that a Corner Record was done for the original BM in 2011, prior to construction. Okay, good so far. Then I learn that the BM was removed during construction in 2014 and now the inquirer was ready to set the replacement BM. No problem, NGS has a nice document covering their BM reset procedures and the equipment required, so I send this information.

I get a response akin to "what do I level off of?" Enough email exchange, so I decide to call. I tell the person (a PLS) to use the NGS procedures to level from the TBM they set prior to construction (for the 2011 CR) to establish the elevation on the new NGS BM (and hopefully they were used to level from the original BM to the TBM in 2011). Crickets..... She says "Oh, we didn't do any leveling in 2011, just filed a CR to show the BM was there." The epitome of a pointless CR.

Fortunately for the PLS, the destroyed BM was part of a level run and the BM's on either side of it were still intact, so they could level from one of them to the new BM, then on to the other to comply with the NGS BM reset procedures.

?ÿ


 
Posted : December 26, 2017 3:20 pm
ars-mine-surveyor
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At least pins are being set. We do not have mandatory recording in NY unless it is a subdivision and setting pin varies by location. Getting a tie to anything outside of the subject parcel is basically non existent except for in Monroe County where a tie to a monument and coordinates are required on a sub map.?ÿ


 
Posted : December 27, 2017 7:43 am
aliquot
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Posted by: ARS Mine Surveyor

At least pins are being set. We do not have mandatory recording in NY unless it is a subdivision and setting pin varies by location. Getting a tie to anything outside of the subject parcel is basically non existent except for in Monroe County where a tie to a monument and coordinates are required on a sub map.?ÿ

We shouldn't need a government body to force us to do our jobs professionally.?ÿ


 
Posted : December 27, 2017 8:59 am