I was finishing a survey of approximately 3/4 of the West Half of a section. We found a survey showing a 1/16 corner that could make a slight difference in our r/w and North Line. Found it under the pavement fairly quickly. Surprise there were 2 1/2" rebars side by side, almost look fused together. I missed one by 0.08N and 0.02E, and the other by 0.05N and 0.03E. I though it was funny one surveyor couldn't accept a rebar a couple hundredths away and felt the need to set another. They were level with each other, so it wasn't missed. The evil side of me wanted to set my own right next to them, but I exercised control. On the upside two surveyors agreed with my breakdown of the section. It reminded me of a survey I did in Bellevue Wa. At 2 of the lot corners there were 8 monuments within a 1 foot circle, at each location, a couple were even tacked. I had to shoot everyone of them for our map. I don't understand the need by some, to create pipe farms.
The 2 side-by-side rebars could have been set by the same surveyor. Maybe he disagreed with himself the next day.
"Follow in the footsteps...."? Heck, WE can do it BETTER!
Second guy never looked there for a bar in the first place. It was hidden beneath a tiny bit of asphalt.
I know a guy that was surveying out in Colorado. He pulled the corner card and it showed about 5 rebars in close proximity. He took a concrete slump test cone, cut the point off, set it over all the rebars, and filled it full of concrete. He then noted this on the card.
Don't forget... you can pound the magnetism out of the rebar.
So, surveyor 1 sets a rebar, and surveyor 2 comes looking for it, and IT IS GONE, (Because the metal detector does not register it) So, he sets his own.
Just try it. Carry a magnet. Next time you POUND it hard, look for it with your metal detector. Then, touch the top of it with a magnet. and do it again. Then you will see.
N:-@
Helloooo....it's called a "Pipe Farm". Keep enough of them in there so they can keep propagating; but then pull the additional ones as you need them to transplant in more barren locations.
Good luck. 😉
Found 3 alum. capped monuments once, each touching the other, all set by the same guy!
-JD-
> Found 3 alum. capped monuments once, each touching the other, all set by the same guy!
>
> -JD-
I know of 3 capped rods about 1' from each other forming a nearly perfect 60°-60°-60° triangle. They were all set by the same company and we are not a capping/tagging state. Seems like they wanted to advertise that they are unknowing idiots.
>...I don't understand the need by some, to create pipe farms.
I do. Its called ignorance and unprofessionalism. See Ted Madsen post for more laughs. (or tears).
I was taught the 1 foot rule on lot corners. If it's within a foot of calc'd, shoot it and note the difference on the map. On sub divisional corners, shoot and use unless their is good reason not too. I have thrown out a few Section Corners from unknown origin, or set in error. It does feel good to find an old original corner, when others have used a newer bar.
The 1 foot rule is arbitrary. Meaning, it is not enough sometimes, and too much at others.
I recommend looking at the big pic.
When retracing one surveyor, that I know, well, finding 5' of error in 1/4 mile is about right. And, usually yield to his mons.
It's too confining to call it the 1 ft rule. Sometimes if it has been there for eons, and it has 4 new fences built to it, well so what if it is say, 2' off?
I'm rambling and thinking out loud here.... I'm being conversational....
N
If a corner is from the first survey it holds regardless. In that situation I would hold it. Unless on the exterior of a plat ( and outside the original tract), or encroaching on a senior deed.
> I was taught the 1 foot rule on lot corners.
Could you please post a cited case, a statute, or some other authoritative source from which the "1 foot rule" was created or held to be law?
certainly not this one:
"In resurveying a tract of land according to a former plat or survey, the surveyor’s only function or right is to relocate, upon the best evidence obtainable, the corners and lines at the same places where originally located by the first surveyor on the ground. The object of a resurvey is to furnish proof of the location of the original survey’s lost lines or monuments, not to dispute the correctness of it. If the original corners can be found, the places where they are originally established are conclusive without regard to whether they are in fact correctly located. The priority of calls is, first, the natural monuments to which it refers; second, the artificial monuments the surveyor places to mark the boundaries; and, third, the courses and distances marked on the plat or survey." Gilbert v Geiger
Rather than create a pipe farm it makes more sense. I'm not saying accept it. By noting on a survey that the monument is off by say 0.60 N and 0.45 E for example. On high dollar property, or for construction along a line, a point will need to be set. In general I believe in avoiding a family of monuments in a small circle.
So if you have eight markers in a one foot diameter circle what do you do? How do you apply the 1 foot rule. Would you do some sort of regression function to locate the center of the eight.
You need to consider unlearning the 1 foot rule as no rule exists in boundary law. You accept a monument because it is a monument, and a monument accepted by the landowners. If you have eight markers you need to get the affected landowners to accept or agree on a single marker which becomes their monument. You can't do this by using your computer, measuring device or applying some made up survey rule. You need to talk to humans and research the law. Provide a solution, not more embarrassment to the land surveying profession.
What the heck, the 1 foot rule. If you go metric do you get a meter, decimeter, centimeter, or millimeter?
I don't even recall the 1 foot rule in some of the lame survey texts.
I'd have to note the position of each monument to the corner location. It seems others prefer the pipe farm concept? I think I was clear that I wasn't accepting the position, unless the first survey or other evidence proved their position. The one foot rule is not law, but a generally accepted practice from many of my mentors. To set another monument 0.2 tenths away, along with 8 other surveyors looks unprofessional to the general public. The public figures we are all screwed up then. Noting on a map the difference is more professional than multiple markers.
Nate you are right.
I understand what you are saying.
If the monument marks the corner (although not perfect) then it marks the corner. There is no need to show it "off."
If it doesn't mark the corner then it is just scrap metal and you should set a monument which marks the corner.
What is more useful to the property owners, a monument which doesn't mark the corner or one which does mark the corner?
Boundaries are physical entities physically marked in the field.
Pin farms result from Land Surveyors not understanding their role in the world. Our role is not to impose some unrealistic standard of perfection (every monument is off a little except for the original GLO monuments); our role is to identify the location of the boundaries using the best available evidence in light of the law which applies.
Monuments are the most important thing in Land Surveying. I hope we can stamp out this pin-cushioning disease. If I am surveying a Deed and I come upon a monument although not called for nor perfectly set in measurement terms nonetheless I will hold that monument if it is in any way possible. Then I have a record vs measured distance along the boundary line. This is just plain common sense which is the essence of boundary law.
There are exceptions to everything and every boundary case is different from all the others so no exact set of rules can be laid down.
Saying the corner is some distance away from a marker is just another form of pin cushion. What have you provided to the landowners? Have you solved their boundary or just added to the confusion?
If the corner location is uncertain then a whole different set of law kicks in. The landowners need help to establish their common boundary. Only the landowners have the authority to do that, so help them out. Don't make their established boundaries, if they exist, uncertain by either a virtual pincushion or another marker in the ground.
And something else to consider. All land surveyors are authorized to do is retrace old boundaries and set new ones when land is divided. Retracement requires evidence of an established boundary, physical evidence. Bearings and distances in a description is not physical evidence. If you are out there putting markers in the ground strictly based on bearings and distance you likely are resurveying not retracing the evidence. Only the landowners can authorize a resurvey and boundaries already in the record have two landowners that need to authorize the resurvey. Around a four sided parcel you could have 5 or more landowners that need to authorize the resurvey.
It took me years and a bunch of unlearning survey rules to figure some of this stuff out. It's harder to break old habits than to learn them correct to begin with. Just because a bunch of mentors did it doesn't make it correct. One of the problems of a mentoring system is that the mentors may not be qualified. It's easy to require that experience and mentoring be part of the licensing process but very little attention is given to qualifying the mentors. They just accept that all licensed are qualified to mentor. It doesn't work. It's a crap shoot whether you get a good or bad mentor. You may not even realize your mentor was unqualified, at least not at the time.
