Had a work order the other day for some aerial rework right-of-way at a church. I did my best at cabbaging up what records I could in a county that has almost nothing on line except the Assessor's info which is pretty much useless for church property since the county gleans no ad valorem revenues from them. And I'm so spoiled nowadays I almost hate to hit the courthouse...especially in this county. I got into it down there about a year ago with the "head biddy in charge" and have been able to avoid 'round 2' so far.
Anyway, one of the section corner records had been filed by a surveyor I'm familiar with so I gave him a call. He was able to provide a lot of really good info since he had actually done some work there at the church and surrounding areas.
Being the antique that I am I always do a tour of the area on Google street view if available. I should have put the pieces together when I first saw the cemetery next to the church, but I didn't. All I remember thinking was "that has to be the tidiest churchyard I've ever seen".
When my surveyor buddy emailed me his info it became apparent why the area seemed so well kept; it's a Mennonite Church and Cemetery. I don't do a lot of work in the area but am familiar with at least two Mennonite communities in the area. I had to do a little reading up. Most of the plain people (Anabaptist) communities here seem to be centered in lands that were once tribal and the tie between the two seemed to escape me.
These lands were part of the Cheyenne-Arapahoe reservation until about 1902 when the rez was allotted and sold to whomever. I remembered a vague connection in another community of plain folks in the county to the north with the Tribe and found some info that kind of put things in perspective.
The first Indian Agent appointed down here by President Grant was Brinton Darlington, a Quaker. It seems as though the Quaker and Mennonite Communities have been interested in missionary work with the Cheyenne-Arapahoe Nation since right after the civil war. Even after the reservations were allotted and the Indian Agencies were combined and offices closed the Amish and Mennonite communities remained.
The church is undergoing some renovation:
The plain, functional and almost austere presence is subtle. And across the street, the school:
Most of the homes and farms in the area are probably Mennonite folks also. Their tidy functionality is obvious. No cable dishes, pools or jet skis around here. Just clean-as-a-whistle farms.
I had the pleasure of meeting a crew of men from the Amish community in Clarita, OK a few years back. They were building hangars at the Durant AP. 5 men did in a week what would take most folks a month to complete. Interesting guys and their habits are more similar to the Pennsylvania Dutch that buggy around in Lancaster Co., PA. Beards and homespun clothes; they didn't drive (they owned a van and paid their hired help to drive them to the jobsite). They even made their own shoes. But when they got to the job, they dropped ihre schuhe and put on store-bought steel-toed boots.
And I wondered if these Mennonites at the church shared much with their Amish cousins when it came to modern conveniences. The farms around here all had electricity and diesel burning rubber tired farm equipment. There's telephone service in the area and everybody has a pickup or car. I did notice the guys working on the church looked like everyday Joes so I couldn't tell if they were members of the community or not. Then came lunch. Two Chevy Tahoes came rolling up in parking lot and the women folk piled out with sacks and covered hot-dishes.
I guess that satisfied my curiosity.
And so the vague connection between the Pennsylvania Plain folks and their distant cousins in Oklahoma became a little more focused for me. But wait, there's more.
My surveyor buddy had provided me with some good research on the section corner nearby. Seems as though in the '20s the county surveyor had noted "stone" at the corner with some ties. A copy of a 1936 survey noted "stone replaced with 1" square stock". The newer survey also had some ties.
One was (amazingly still standing) a cross on a stone in a handmade headwall.
And another was to an 8" iron gate post on the opposite side of the intersection. At first it appeared to be missing, but actually had only been cut off flush. The base remains intact.
And in the intersection, within a tenth or two of distance noted eighty years ago sits a worn and rusted 1" square iron rod just a little below the asphalt surface. So the question is, "Is the original stone still there under the pavement?" My answer...who cares? I have some good documentation for the corner's location. There's no need to disturb it if it's indeed still there.
Besides, I'd probably have to counsel with the church elders to see if their doctrines allow the use of ground penetrating radar on their corners...;)
I live in the midst of large Mennonite community. They're not much different than everyone else, other than their dress.
The Ford tractor sitting in the back of the parking lot at Pizza Hut is there so the Mennonite lady employed there has a way home at the end of her shift.
Mennonites built my two-car garage in 2 days. Day one: Dig and set all the upright posts. Day two: Build a garage complete with doors and roof.
That fella Cliff, who ran the crew, was smokin' and cursin' and spittin' just like any other regular Joe. They were all polite and friendly and I'd have them back anytime.
I have no practical experience with any of the various sects of the plain people but having met a few of them in central Georgia years ago caused me to do a little reading. I had always assumed that the Mennonites had sprung from the Amish, having decided to ease some of the restriction in their customs. What I found is that the Amish separated from the Mennonites because they thought the Mennonites were getting too worldly...
As unlikely as this may seem, I have one branch of my family tree that apparently goes back to both Mennonite and Amish ancestors, possibly back to the early days in Switzerland. One great-great grandfather was a preacher in what many referred to as the Dunkard Church. These were among his ancestors.
https://www.wvencyclopedia.org/articles/2101
JerryS, post: 445540, member: 205 wrote: I have no practical experience with any of the various sects of the plain people but having met a few of them in central Georgia years ago caused me to do a little reading. I had always assumed that the Mennonites had sprung from the Amish, having decided to ease some of the restriction in their customs. What I found is that the Amish separated from the Mennonites because they thought the Mennonites were getting too worldly...
And that was in the 1700s!
I appreciate the pics and story, Mr. Cash, made me a little home sick.
While I was in high school, my family attended the nearby Mennonite church, and as a teenager I spent a couple summers on masonry crew with one of the family businesses. I would sometimes go back and visit on break from college and they really could not believe that I was still in school. My peers there were working from childhood, learning a trade in their early-mid teens, and were journey-level [insert trade] by 17 or 18 years old. By the time I was graduating college at 21, many of them owned businesses, were married, and had a couple kids. The idea that I would be a grown man and really just getting started in my occupation just didn't make sense to them--I think they're on to something there!
We have a fairly large Amish settlement. The one thing that worries me just a little is that for the young people of that community their dating pool consists of cousins. The same surname appears on marriage license applications for the bride and the groom.
JerryS, post: 445540, member: 205 wrote: I have no practical experience with any of the various sects of the plain people but having met a few of them in central Georgia years ago caused me to do a little reading. I had always assumed that the Mennonites had sprung from the Amish, having decided to ease some of the restriction in their customs. What I found is that the Amish separated from the Mennonites because they thought the Mennonites were getting too worldly...
The Amish Community in southeastern OK, near Clarita, actually had a community split back in the sixties over "doctrine". Having migrated to the clay rich area the steel wheeled tractors they used would bog down in the clay. Some took to using rubber tires on their equipment without allowing the elders to decide. The two schools of thought split into two communities.
Image a bunch of people arguing about what tires you use...when the main idea was to plow the field. Sounds like a bunch of surveyors to me...;)
Amen, Brother Cash, Amen.
Holy Cow, post: 445556, member: 50 wrote: Amen, Brother Cash, Amen.
Now lets get on the same page here. Was that an 'AY-men' or an 'AH-men' ? It apparently makes a difference around here. My almost eighty year old retire preacher brother and I still can't agree on whether we forgive debtors or trespassers. Now I can forgive debts, but I'm a staunch supporter of telling people to "stay off my lawn!" 😉
Speaking of the Pentecost let me bore you all with a story about Young Paden and the brush arbor revival.
Momma Cash had an older sister that lost her husband in the war. She was ok but a little neurotic. Us kids didn't like going to her house because you couldn't touch anything and you had to stay out of the kitchen.
But she was ardent church goer. Momma confided once she thought her sister was just throwing herself at men and seemed to like men of the cloth. Maybe so...I don't really want to know.
Anyway, since my aunt didn't drive she got Pops to drop Momma, her sister, Holden and me off at the tent revival one summer night. I guess I was about six or seven. At first Holden and I were excited because from the road it looked like a circus tent. Boy were we wrong.
But we were good kids and sat quiet through a couple of hymns. Then the preacher got down to some real on-fire praying and preaching with the Gifts of the Spirit. Holden and I were scared to death with the people jibber-jabbing and falling out in the aisle with the palsy. I got even more scared when I realized Momma was scared too.
Finally, after an eternity, Momma grabbed us kids and we were gone. We walked a half mile to a gas station and called Pops for a ride home. We were still wide-eyed, but Pops thought it was hilarious.
I don't know what happened to my aunt.
I'd rather deal with the Amish as opposed to the tweakers and other misc pill heads.....
Holy Cow, post: 445545, member: 50 wrote: We have a fairly large Amish settlement. The one thing that worries me just a little is that for the young people of that community their dating pool consists of cousins. The same surname appears on marriage license applications for the bride and the groom.
There's an "Amish, Mennonite, and Hutterite Genetic Disorder Database" so yes, there's some inherited disease/disorder problems.
Rankin_File, post: 445565, member: 101 wrote: I'd rather deal with the Amish as opposed to the tweakers and other misc pill heads.....
I'd rather deal with the Amish and Mennonites than about anybody.
1. They're never going to sue you, period.
2. If you have a business issue with them you can't resolve, you can take it to their chuch elders. In almost all cases, the church will require an ethical result, and use church discipline to enforce the matter.
3. They're probably not in much debt, so they don't generally make squirrelly hail Mary business deals that crash on everyone involved.
FrozenNorth, post: 445567, member: 10219 wrote: I'd rather deal with the Amish and Mennonites than about anybody.
1. They're never going to sue you, period.
2. If you have a business issue with them you can't resolve, you can take it to their chuch elders. In almost all cases, the church will require an ethical result, and use church discipline to enforce the matter.
3. They're probably not in much debt, so they don't generally make squirrelly hail Mary business deals that crash on everyone involved.
4. They're always dealing in/looking for land.
I had a client years ago that used to buy up farms in his area, keep 40-50 acres for his holdings, and sell the house, outbuildings, and 20-30 acres to local Mennonites that were away looking for land for their kids. A lot were working carpentry or other jobs, and wanted enough acreage to be self sustaining rather than farming as a main line of income.
Aaaay-men, aaaay-men, aaaay-men, ay-men, ay-men
Hallelujah
Aaaay-men, aaaay-men........................................................................
Holy Cow, post: 445580, member: 50 wrote: Aaaay-men, aaaay-men, aaaay-men, ay-men, ay-men
Hallelujah
Aaaay-men, aaaay-men........................................................................
Best movie ever made...even if it was in black & white.
paden cash, post: 445513, member: 20 wrote:
[SARCASM]So, Appalachian Nuns then..[/SARCASM]
Holy Cow, post: 445523, member: 50 wrote: The Ford tractor sitting in the back of the parking lot at Pizza Hut is there so the Mennonite lady employed there has a way home at the end of her shift.
I don't have a faintest notion about how this relates to Surveying and Geomatics. But with some minor embellishments, this would make a good pitch for a reality television program.