?ÿI found these right around the points described on my plat map but wanted to check if these were old fashioned property markers. ?ÿThe lots were originally sectioned off in the 50??s and 60??s I believe but have heard they could??ve been from even earlier. ?ÿPictures attached.
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I believe that it is fairly common, particularly in the east, for concrete bounds like this to be used even today..?ÿ
They look like corners to me.?ÿ I use to run into these concrete 'plugs' with a large nail or spike place in the center from time to time.?ÿ Not so much anymore.
The most common apparently used some type of metal can to form the top on the monument.?ÿ I've seen soup cans up to 1 lb. coffee cans with everything from a small concrete nail and shiner to 80d spikes poured in the center.?ÿ I remember one large property with several corners marked consisting of concrete filled 4" clay sewer tiles with a rebar placed in the center. The notes indicated those were placed in the late '40s.
Homeowners do that all the time here.?ÿ Excavate down around the stake, place a coffee can around it and fill with concrete - often burying the top of the stake in the concrete.?ÿ Eventually gets frost heaved.
Are you saying a different type of point was described and you found these instead? If you're not finding what was described, or if no particular type of corner monument was described, I wouldn't rely on them without a surveyors opinion. My online guess could be they appear to be property corner markers, but that's worth less than nothing (as it could get you in trouble).
While only a proper survey can tell you for sure, a through read of your deed might give you an insight.?ÿ Or the subdivision plat.?ÿ If the plat or deed calls for the corners to be a nail or rod set in concrete, then you are pretty sure this is it.?ÿ If the description does not specify the "in concrete" part, then these points are suspect until proven.?ÿ In my locale, even today some markers set for certain corners (beginning and ends of curves, major subdivision corners, etc...) are required to be set in concrete like these.
If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck, it is probably a duck.............but not in all cases.?ÿ Surveyors run into this situation all the time.?ÿ Property owners/clients see surveyors setting some sort of common item for boundary corners, such as 1" pipe or 3/4" rebar, so they obtain similar items and start setting their own corners in hopes of convincing the adjoiners they must have been set by surveyors.?ÿ In my area, very few corners have concrete around the marker where the surveyor is the one adding the concrete.?ÿ Here, there is 95 percent likelihood of property owner addition of the concrete.?ÿ The primary exception being at modern subdivision corners that have been set in concrete to conform to a specific subdivision policy.?ÿ Nearly all monuments set by surveyors COULD be moved by a very energetic and determined private person at some later date.?ÿ That is the number one reason to consult with a local surveyor.?ÿ They have the knowledge and tools to evaluate whether the monuments are where they were set by the prior surveyor.
Most often, moved corners, were moved by utility companies. During installation of underground utilities.
These can cause problems. Knocked out by trencher, found when back filling, and reset by guess and hope.
And, land owners take possession, and it's the only marker they have ever seen. And, it's wrong by some feet.
Surveying can get fun!
N :d ?ÿ
How do the measurements between them and also relative to any other reference markers compare to the record?
Over 25 years ago we were starting a survey when a fellow from down the block saw us using our metal detector in the alley.?ÿ He strolled up and asked if we were looking for a couple of 1" pipes.?ÿ He had guessed correctly.?ÿ He told us we would find them about three feet south of where the prior surveyor had put them.?ÿ He said he had seen the real estate agent finding them, digging them up, then moving them to make sure that line did not hit the neighbor's garage.?ÿ He had moved both monuments on the alley the same amount to make it appear they were legit.?ÿ It turned out he was absolutely right with his information.?ÿ The line did, in fact, run through the neighbor's garage a bit.
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That's the interesting part, they are both pretty much spot-on in the visual aspect of the plat map in the GIS website in both satellite and non-satellite pictures (reference points in the satellite match as well), and also the dimensions between the markers are pretty much exactly (within inches) what the plat map's dimensions are for the lot. Also, the old neighborhood map shows exactly what the plat map shows in regards to the size and points on the lot and they are not related that I am aware of. I understand that a new survey could yield exact results but it does appear to be pretty accurate so far.?ÿ There is one corner completely covered by railroad ties so I don't think I will be seeing that monument, and the fourth corner does not have the cement plug pictured but just a 1-1.5" thick rebar stake in the ground at the exact point the plat lists.
they are both pretty much spot-on in the visual aspect of the plat map in the GIS website
I'm not a surveyor, but am a Vermont justice of the peace, and have some responsibility for property taxes. What often appears in GIS websites are tax maps. A cartographer making a tax map is interested in
- compromising, of necessary, what the deed says on once side of a line with what the deed on the other side says
- getting the area, road frontage, and lake frontage (if applicable) close enough that the assessed tax value is close
- covering every square inch in the jurisdiction with no overlaps (if values from file survey plats were copied verbatim, there would be overlaps and gaps)
A land surveyor, on the other hand, is striving to create an accurate plat of the property he or she was hired to survey. These different goals can lead to different results. You should make sure the plat you are looking at was signed and sealed by a land surveyor; otherwise, it's less useful for locating actual property boundaries.
recovered a bunch of corners at a site that we surveyed a few decades ago...every single corner, the owner had carefully dug out around the rebar, placed a coffee tin, and poured concrete around it. He made them all into concrete monuments, still had our rebar and cap.
- I just testified at a trial that a spike set in a coffee can full of concrete was not a monument that a Surveyor would set. The opponents surveyor testified that it was his professional opinion that the spike in the can was set by the original Surveyor . Next day the Developer takes the stand and testified it was he who set the spike in the can, because Surveyors didn't know how to set good monuments. He continued to testify that he had in fact done all the surveying. The few pins he had set were all short of record distance and about 20 degrees off in bearing. He explained it was due to "Iron Mountain" which made compasses useless in that area. By coincidence the declination in that area is about 20 degrees.
- I know in Texas if a property corner is different from record by .05 feet they set a new monument, so if your suspect monument varies significantly from record. Shouldn't you question it's validity.
- P.S. the Texas reference is an attempt to add humor.
What did the deed or plat say was set?
