I may have a new project and it's going to be interesting....
Preliminary research and site walk has revealed a few things.
1. Problems in the location of a few, yep FEW, centerlines for the block. Differences vary from 2.4 feet to over 4 feet.
2. Zero setback building lines, three buildings involved for two parcels. The rear line appears to also be zero setback, hard to say since access to the rear is through a private school.
3. Zero survey monuments in the non public block.
4. 1885 Pasadena Subdivision. Cannot be retraced through standard survey methods.
Heres a couple of snapshots
WEST LINE
MID POINT OF PROJECT
EAST LINE
EAST PASSAGE LOOKING NORTH
REAR LINE LOOKING WEST
REAR LINE LOOKING EAST
Also included for the same admission price is a detailed roof top survey of the building on the right of the first photo. There is a helpiad up there supposedly. The previous owner applied for and was granted a permit to constuct one by the City. Unfortunately no one told him that helicopters cannot land near a school :}:
That passage is the only open access, I should be thankful that I even have that one.
The buildings in that area were done in the early twenties. Does anyone see any monuments in those photos?
Yes, I see many monuments in place for evaluation, even some further out that could be used to reconstruct your area of interest. You seem to have existing street and many very old buildings to work with. Gather the building footprint data and street data and evaluate it. Bet you will find some order in that data you will have confidence in.
jud
Nope, not a one, don't see a single monument. What I do see is plenty of evidence as to how,over time, property owners have located themselves with respect to the written record. I really like that wood frame building, probaby from 1903-1910.
I am curious how they figured out the location for the cinderblock building....no survey evidence there?
Yep Jud...were on the same page with that one :good:
What I see is $$$$$.$$
Of course, they will probably expect $$$.$$.
Should be fun with lots of very short shots and offsets to true line.
> Nope, not a one, don't see a single monument. What I do see is plenty of evidence as to how,over time, property owners have located themselves with respect to the written record.
The double barrel brick buildings are a monument to the old survey work.
>I really like that wood frame building, probaby from 1903-1910.
1898 is the construction date
> I am curious how they figured out the location for the cinderblock building....no survey evidence there?
So am I. That is a concrete block wall for the school property hard to the north.
> What I see is $$$$$.$$
Gee! I wish! I bid $$$$.$$
Who wants the survey and why? Are they gluttons for punishment?
Pasadena can be a real mixed bag for survey monuments. My company does map checking for the city and i have seen some pretty poor examples of maps come through over the last three years. 99% of it are 1 lot subdivision maps for condo projects. Most of the city was originally subdivided a very long time ago and sometimes the only evidence of boundary line locations are building lines, street improvements and/or fence lines.
Steven
> Who wants the survey and why?
The owners of the brown brick faced building on the west have purchased the yellow stucco faced on on the east. The plan is to eventually tear down a part of the yellow building but preserve the facade and then extending a new building east of the line between both of them at the height of the roof of the building on the west.
>Are they gluttons for punishment?
Not sure what that means Steve?
My guess on the wood frame was not to far off....you know I was just kidding, there is plenty to work with there. Did you say this is Pasadena? I cannot remember if they keep old plans. There are probab;ly plans for the block bilidng(site plans I mean) and if you are really lucky there maybe stuff from the 1920's buildings.....
I made a tie to check a deed reference in Sausalito from and 1890's vintage wall to a railroad right of way and it checked to the tenth. A lot of very good work has been done over time and then again your block it your block....
Buildings and fences do not dictate where a boundary line is, but they do tell you where someone thought a boundary line was.
If that was in Portland the passage between the brick wall and the building would be blackberries up to eye level.
Paul
Sorry, just an attempt at a lame joke. I figured there must be some reason. I have seen situations with zero lot line old buildings where surveyors have gotten carried away with the math and set nails & tags a couple tenths into one building or the other and disrupted the neighborhood. I know you won't do that and it doesn't sound like there's any basis to do it anyway.
I do not think anyone is going to be moving the 1898 building or the brick building from the 1920's. If your surveyed lines run throught those buildings.... perhaps you need to reconsider.....
> Pasadena can be a real mixed bag for survey monuments.
I'll second that one. When researching in Pasadena you are rolling the dice. They have records for a few areas but for the most part, they do not. Sometime back the City just trashed the old records, after all, they were old and useless to them.
The Public Works Engineering Dept used to be run and partially staffed by former Lithuanian SS, back in the early 70's.
I do have one ace up my sleeve. I have the entire list of the Allin Brothers suvey work that was done by them between 1883 and 1933. I owe David Hobbs a big THANKS for tracking down these notes. I have not gone through the list yet to see if there is anything that can help me out yet..eventually. Here is a partial listing
ALLIN BROTHERS
> .... If your surveyed lines run throught those buildings.... perhaps you need to reconsider.....
If that happens you have my permission to drive/fly over and slap me. I'll pay for travel expenses :hi5:
Danemince. Those old boys were sharp and I bet there was good survey evidence remaining when those structures were built, hence their their status as monuments for consideration until proven unworthy. Boundary surviving sometime has few or no survey monuments to start from, but the lands still need surveying. I think it could be called reverse engineering as the only tool available, if done properly the area is left in harmony with the monuments in place to maintain that harmony.
jud
Jud
I will probably do an occupation survey of the entire block and see how it all fits then install monuments through out the block and file the RS. This survey will be fun and will probably need two sheets.
> Danemince. Those old boys were sharp and I bet there was good survey evidence remaining when those structures were built, hence their their status as monuments for consideration until proven unworthy. Boundary surviving sometime has few or no survey monuments to start from, but the lands still need surveying. I think it could be called reverse engineering as the only tool available, if done properly the area is left in harmony with the monuments in place to maintain that harmony.
> jud
I have accept structures as the best available evidence of the original lot lines and checked them against the structures across the street. I absolutely agree that the old buildings probably witness the original corners better than anything else left today in most cases. Curb-and-gutter or other improvements aren't usually set to the same degree of precision as buildings on a zero-offset property line.
