NSPS CERTIFIED SURVEY TECHNICIAN ?

It's a pretty good program and the tests are of an appropriate difficulty level. No real benefit to the certification in NY, but some states there is. We use level three practice exam questions as an assessment tool at graduation (AAS).

MassPort requires it for employment, and my sister went through the exam when it first came out. Other than that I haven't heard much about it.

Dtp

I went through it about 25 years ago. I made it to Level 3 if I remember correctly. It was a major step on my journey to become a licensed professional. I don't think we have anyone in our company in the program. I don't believe that the CA State Board gives any credit for the program. Don't see why they would either, the Board is testing for professionals and the CST program is for technicians.

I've worked with some public agencies that specify a requirement for field personel to be certified when they issue an RFQ

A Professional Land Surveyor can perform many of our core functions without using all of our fancy tools and tricks. At the same time I am a bit sore from repeated face palming trying to follow some record maps. The lack of technical knowledge boggles the mind at times. The bottom line for me is simole. If a Surveyor can't perform the technical tasks under his direction he shouldn't be signing maps... my 02 Tom

I think licensed surveyors should require it of their employees. If they don't have it when you hire them, they should be on probation until they do. The work these people do is important and its hard to explain to the public that the people they see doing most of the surveying work aren't licensed, interns or even certified. Is it any wonder the public doesn't hold us in high regard.

I kind of agree with that. If the technician does not have a degree in surveying, then the NSPS certification is a way to learn more and get acknowledgement that you have learned. The program was designed for those without a degree. If the technician has a degree in surveying, the NSPS cert. is redundant and shouldn't be needed. I would rather see the degreed technician take the first part of the licensing exam and be acknowledged as an LSIT.

Should Level III Be Able To Pass Fundamentals Exam?

CST is a testing program, not a teaching program, but there are some institutions that allow you to test out of certain subjects. Would it be unreasonable to consider CST as a test out for the most basic survey courses, say 6 or 9 credits worth and start with some of the office oriented calculation and analysis courses? It may be sufficient to allow a CST to apply to test out. The college test or tests to be the decider on credits allowed.

even if you have been to a college then transfer the new college looks carefully at what you have learned. They may retaking of a course with a low grade, D or even C, or whose first college catalog description is far off of the second college's.

What is needed is conversations with individuals who have been through CST and also a surveying degree program, or instructors who have seen CSTs come through their program.

Paul in PA

Should Level III Be Able To Pass Fundamentals Exam?

One of the things I see lacking (at least around here) is educational opportunities for survey technicians outside of on the job training. I see a good number of careers that have 1-2 year college certification programs like in nursing, welding, automotive etc. Seems like that would be a good way to go about getting a CST certification.

Lack Of Education Opportunity?

From my latest count there are 120 college level survey programs, mostly community colleges.

I have seen that colleges that find there expected students to be already working schedule evening and Saturday classes. They do this because they have low student numbers and even only 1 more student can make the program profitable. I mean not just in surveying, in accounting, business management, law etc.

Very few MBA students pursue the degree as a full time student. I would say at least half the paralegals are already doing the work and want to advance farther with an education. As an undergraduate the only available accounting course at Lehigh was evenings and part of their MBA program, so I sat in an amongst businessmen. Years later in another course I had the same instructor, a CPA, moonlighting at the local community college.

First part of any surveying course almost always begins with drafting/CAD courses. Also Geometry/Trigonometry if you did not have them in high school. Another part of surveying is deed research and understanding the law. Both of those can be learned in a legal research class at almost any community college. I took AutoCAD, legal research and real estate law at 3 different community colleges that never considered survey programs. One was my local county college the other 2 were near where I was working at the time.

The number of online education opportunities is also growing.

All it takes is someone to guide them to the path that leads to the result. Is that someone you? It should be.

Let's see North/central Florida:

Okefenokee Technical College in Georgia
Middle Georgia College in Cochran is 2 hours North
University of Florid is online.

Paul in PA

Lack Of Education Opportunity?

I am a level 3 cst. Would I like to be licensed? Sure. Is it worth 20k and my time ? Definitely not at this point in my life. You want young people to choose the profession? You need to figure out how to pay them more. My oldest son finished college recently with a bs in mechanical engineering. He started out at his first job at 68k. That is an eit salary boys. That's what you have to contend with. The bar is so low nowadays everyone goes to college. Make it worth it and you will fill those classes up in no time.

Lack Of Education Opportunity?

I stand corrected. I see that University of Florida is offering an online Certificate in Geomatics. It appears you only need 15 credit hours of undergraduate courses along with 15 credit hours of survey related courses. Theoretically you could get that in a year full time if you could get the course schedule lined up (but probably not with prerequisite requirements). At $295 per credit hour the total cost for the certificate would be $8,850 plus books. Does that sound economical for a survey tech?

Lack Of Education Opportunity?

>Does that sound economical for a survey tech?

9k and that may get him or her what from their current employer? A buck or two an hour? I doubt it. You give them a raise you would have total anarchy from every single person who worked their way up the ladder, unless you give them a raise also. If they walk, what do you do? Place all your risk on somebody that has sat and listened to Professor Dave stumble through his lectures? A formal education is definitely an asset to a person, and probably makes a well rounded surveyor in the long run. But is surveying lucrative enough to compete for top talent in that pool? It is a shame that ya'll won't recognize experience as just as valuable as college education, because it's usually the experience crowd that has the passion to stick it out.

Lack Of Education Opportunity?

The price tag might not be that bad. If you go to local state college for your non-core credits, it could be a little over $6k. I also envision the certificate programs would be appropriate for those new to surveying. Another problem I have noticed is a lack of entry level positions for surveyors. It seems nobody wants to take on someone who is totally green. At one of our recent surveying society meeting, someone commented that the rodman position is becoming nearly nonexistent.

We have an active, ongoing program to get people certified; at some point certification is required for advancement for non-LSIT/PLS personnel. We have about 15 people taking Level 1 in late May and have been conducting weekly 90 minute lunch & learns to prepare them.

:good:

We have a program here at my company too. We really started pushing it last year for all of our non-professionals (field crews, CAD techs and Project Managers). We currently have about 40 out of 290 that have passed at least the level one exam. It is not a job requirement. My company gives a bonus check to those who successfully pass the different level exams(increasing amount with each level passed). My company looks at this program as a benefit in the long run. It will make us more competitive on bids and more efficient in the office. I think it is worth for our CAD tech and field crews to take these exams. It is definitely a win-win for everyone.

Lack Of Education Opportunity?

> You want young people to choose the profession? You need to figure out how to pay them more.

Amen!

When I employed someone, I was paying an LSIT more than many places paid their employees with an LS. And it was not breaking the bank on my profits.

It is ridiculous how little some people will pay the folks who are often functioning as the employers eyes on the ground. Even with the low pay, they expect the employee to almost run the entire business for them.

Current CST III and current UF Geomatics student.

The CST III earned me my job placement, the Geomatics program will allow me become licensed. I believe the math questions prepared me for the Geomatics program. I also believe that all CST III has a better chance of passing the State exam. I don't believe that the CST is the end all be all. The test is not current with standard surveying and mapping practices and procedures of today. I believe that the CST is a test that proves critical thinking skills only. Some questions are useless, (i.e. how far can a 1 watt radio can reach) but most are very important.

Bottom line is that all who have passed CST II & III earn my respect as a surveyor, but since the test is not applicable to everyday surveying, I still think its crucial to have a quality education before being allowed to sit for the state exam.