POB's Newsline: September 2011 printed a joint statement from NSPS, AAGS, and GLIS. The quote in part, states, "The realigned group plans to reach out to all members of the geospatial community, including "licensed and non-licensed boundary surveyors ... and any other related disciplines". Really? What is a non-licensed Boundary Surveyor? Perhaps the head of NSPS has already forgotten what the requirements are for Boundary Surveying.
If memory serves me correctly, way back in time when ACSM membership was for licensed or registered Land Surveyors, (and non-licensed surveyors were associate members), ASCM wanted to boost their membership (read $$$$) so they opened their doors to anyone who could interpret their job duties as survey related. ACSM created different membership categories, in order to pacify the Land Surveyors.
Then, not so far back in time, NSPS was created to address the special concerns of Land Surveyors. Then along came AAGS and then along came GLIS, who had their own special needs, but could not represent themselves as Land Surveyors.
Now, ACSM has died. NSPS has agreed to carry the torch for everyone who wants to say, "we are a member of the "National Society of Professional Surveyors"", but cannot represent themselves as Land Surveyors. That was the "rub" and is still the "rub"! Most state laws prohibit anyone from representing themselves as Land Surveyors who are not licensed, or registered. The reason for doing so is to protect the general public.
People who work in land surveying, but cannot pass the surveyor's exam, or do not want to even try to pass the exam for fear of failure, will now be able to join NSPS. The non-licensed surveyor can now add to their business card "Member of the National Society of Professional Surveyors".
It seems to me that the reasons NSPS, AAGS and GLIS exist is because ACSM could not resist the money of special interest groups. Had ACSM resisted at the outset, ACSM could still exist as the American Congress (OF) Surveyors (AND) Mappers.
Maybe, just maybe, we licensed and non-licensed boundary surveyors should form a new organization called The American Congress of Boundary Surveyors and Mappers. We could restrict full membership to those people who are either Licensed, or Registered Boundary Surveyors. And restrict associate membership to those people who have not yet become licensed or registered but who have at least one-year experience in the field of boundary surveying.
Is a survey tech. a non-licensed boundary surveyor?
No he/she is a survey tech, not a boundary surveyor.
Is a pre-med student a non-licensed doctor?
Be careful about the so-called
unlicensed surveyors.
I would put up the BLM unlicensed land surveyors against the best of the licensed land surveyors!
Keith
Be careful about the so-called
I'm guessing they just meant a Tech. I can't imagine they'd allow illegal surveyors as members (intentionally). Most these groups want as many members as possible. It may have just been worded poorly.
It's bout thyime ------ However
& Unfortunately, the long term benefits will be tarnished by the short term damage of the splintering of our profession.
Although I do believe that the divorce of the ACSM & NSPS is a good thing.
Be careful about thinking surveying is easy
Keith,
Put them up against who, doing what? Surveying large tracts of government land is a special skill and can be impressive, but send same technician to do a boundary survey in an old, challenging subdivision, or attempt a high precision level run or prepare an ALTA survey of a large shopping center, or..., or..., or....
Perhaps they will follow AIP
The American Institute of Physics was the umbrella for a dozen or more other groups. To belong to the Optics organization, for example, you first had to join AIP.
handyman
If you really think that all BLM surveyors do is survey large tracts of land, like townships, you are mistaken. Those surveys are in the past and the dependent resurveys that are being completed now are in some of the worst case scenarios with multiple boundary problems. Naturally, that is the reason for the dependent resurvey to be done which will enable the land manager to know where the boundary actually is located.
BLM land surveyors are not licensed by any State and receive their 1373 OPM ratings from established requirements. One method of becoming a 1373 land surveyor is to be registered in a State.
Keith
Be careful about the so-called
> unlicensed surveyors.
>
> I would put up the BLM unlicensed land surveyors against the best of the licensed land surveyors!
>
> Keith
I must disagree. I know many private LS's that know a whole bunch of things pertinent to private boundaries that few BLM people have ever heard of. That is perfectly OK, as long as BLM doesn't toss Fed rules at private parties when they clearly are contrary to state laws the BLM too many times just shine on as insignificant to their Govt. Rule procedures.
T. P.
Just to be curious, what does the State of Washington have to say about the BLM Manual?
Keith
T. P.
Plenty. As well, there is a large volume of statues and civil law that defines the great many issues where Govt Rule loses to the better ideas of the indigenouse people of the state. If Govt Rule fits the case, it is paramont. If Govt Rule is an ass, it is covered by rational laws that suit harmony far better in many cases.
This is a brief follow-up to my original post.
The reason for my original posting was to remind surveyors that not all people should be included as members of the new NSPS. ACSM tried that and now ACSM no longer exists.
If POB quoted the NSPS statement accurately, then I object to NSPS allowing full membership to people "in all related disciplines" and "non-licensed boundary surveyors". Just the use of the term "non-licensed boundary surveyors" by NSPS, gets my blood to boiling.
I have no objection to full membership for BLM certified surveyors. They provide a special service, whether or not that person is a licensed boundary surveyor.
Land Surveyors have interests that differ from GIS specialists. I believe that Land Surveyors should know something about GIS. I remember when a GIS plan was called a
"Compiled Plan".
NSPS is a national society of professional surveyors.
It is not a national society of related disciplines.
T. P.
Plenty?
What does that mean?
T. P.
It means exactly that. Wash Statute recognizes the Manual as paramont in boundary issues where govt lines are called for. But if applying those rules would serve to upset the neighborhood, we got lots of other statutes and civil precedents to trump GLO math exercises.
T. P.
I would sure like to see that statute quoted so we can make up our own minds on what it says!
These are all valid concerns, and I would suggest that you take it up with your NSPS Governor. New Hampshire is represented by:
Mark C. Sargent
21 Maple Street
Center Barnstead, NH 03225
Phone: (603) 225-6770
Fax: (603) 224-6261
Email: msargent@richarddbartlett.com
Now would be a very good time to contact him because the NSPS Board of Governors meets on 2 December 2011. That will give him time to research your concerns and work with you to come up with a solution, but also be quick enough to not let it drop off the radar.🙂
ACSM was started by Federal Cartographers
and not by Land Surveyors. The various disciplines were least represented by the Land Surveyors back in 1941, now the tail wags the dog. I dropped my membership as a Fellow of the ACSM in the late 1980s as it offered little of interest to me at the time.
Good luck to the NSPS.
T. P.
All the statutes are online. Help yourself. Appeals rulings as well. Go for it.
ACSM was started by Federal Cartographers
I dropped ACSM around the same time. What our reps were reporting when they came back from DC was polar opposite of what was reported by the ACSM Journal reports. I don't fund liers and I don't want my name associated with such like.
It would be nice if yet another reorganization actually accomplishes something. Show me some base principles that don't need reorganization every 10 years and I might be interested again. Show me responsible fiscal management as well or I am a no show.
But if it has anything to do with membership for "non-licensed surveyors", no thanks. Not legal in any state I practice in to call yourself a surveyor unless you are licensed.
