Mineral Rights

In Texas, it would have been all materials that could have been Produced via mining or drilling.

It basically would convey the suface subject to mining. Your area is probably different and should be viewed with the terminology applicable at the time of patent. That will give you your answer. Sounds like a helluva lot of research though. The surveying will be easy.

Nowhere near enough information to even venture a rough guess...

Under what authority (Act of Congress) was the Railroad entitlement issued or granted?

What State (and Railroad) are we talking about?

What is the time period?

I assume that the lands (Township) was surveyed by the time the Railroad got there. What does the PLSS Plat and Field Notes say about “Mineral Lands” within the Township?

Was it an Active Mining District at the time, and if so, what was the general land status (Patented and Unpatented) in that area?

You probably need to look at documents EARLIER than the Railroad Documents to find your answers (maybe not).

Exceptions like “Mineral Lands” (especially in Railroad “Grants”) are NOT [generally] held to be retroactive. Either the lands were known to be Mineral in Character at the time (in which case the Railroad did NOT get them), or they were NOT (in which case, the subsequent discovery of valuable minerals does NOT invalidate the original grant or entitlement).

If it is all now "BLM Land", then we are talking about acquired lands, and there are any number of reasons why the Secretary of Interior has not (and may NEVER) open them to Location Under the General Mining (INCLUDING the possibility that the Mineral Estate still resides in Private ownership).

Loyal

It was normal for the R/R to get the mineral rights with the grants they received, just like other land patents. It was also common for them to retain all mineral rights when selling the land or at least retaining any rights to coal deposits. In the 50's some R/R's were allowing land owners to buy their mineral rights back from the R/R by just paying the expenses, some did.
jud

Thank you, those are some of the questions I wanted raised. This is incendential to a construction project. Someone else is working on this and I offered to pose the question here to get some input.

This township was a Benson survey.........(Fraud)

I'll follow up a few more details later.

Thanks! JRL

So we started at the beginning where the Federal Government patented this land to the railroad company. This patent specifically excludes "mineral lands". That is exactly how it is written in quotes

The first thing I would do is to get the MT and OG Plats. They should tell you the Federal interest. After that a really good mineral title person. The OG and MT plats are on line for Wyoming and it takes about 20 seconds to get them. Probably they are not that easy to get where you are, but a call to the local BLM office would get them in a few days. Maybe they aren't as complete as what I'm used to; but I usually print them out wherever I survey. Lots of info on them.

Mighty is ABSOLUTELY right on here!

I always START with the Master Title Plat (Oil and Gas/Acquired Lands etc.), Historical Indexes, etc. as a matter of standard operating procedure. These are available online in many states, and can really start you off on the right foot.

Loyal

Like Loyal said not enough information...Careful when you use the words Benson Sydicate and Fraud. Just finished up a case where the plaintiffs were saying the survey was fradulent...Took about 15 minutes of testimony to prove them wrong. Seems the decision was on "not enough information".

Pablo

>...Careful when you use the words Benson Sydicate and Fraud. Just finished up a case where the plaintiffs were saying the survey was fradulent...Took about 15 minutes of testimony to prove them wrong. Seems the decision was on "not enough information".
>
> Pablo

I re-surveyed parts of a couple Townships in the Southeastern part of California following Benson and a couple earlier GLO surveyors.
Found enough of Benson's corners to re-establish the lost/missing ones. He did pretty good work. I've also followed some of his deputies in Humbolt Co. where the corners were few and far between.
It seems like the work depended a lot on the terrain, but to equate "Benson Syndicate" with fraudulent surveys across the board won't fly.

DJJ

Around here it is rugged and remote terrain. They did not do much actual surveying here at all. The notes were fabricated in Southern California, while he was relaxing in camp after a hard days work.

Gunman

I don't know where you are working, but if you are in Northern Nevada, I would suggest taking a look at the "Settlemeyer Notes" that the BLM has in Reno. They can be a real eye-opener if they by chance cover the Township in question (and in some respects, even if they don't).

BTW...if you are in Nevada, give me the Township/Range and I'll look it up in the Settlemeyer Index, and give you a book & page(s).

LDOGEO at AOL dot com
Loyal

Benson Syndicate

From the 1888 Annual Report of the Commisioner of the G.L.O.

"Township 7 South, Range 25 East and Township 8 South, Ranges 24 and 25 East, Mount Diablo Meridian: These townships are very rough, intersected by deep canyons and very steep, almost impassable mountains, in part covered with dense chaparral. Six weeks before the deputy claims to have commenced his surveys, all the people who live there in the summer are driven out by the snows, all business is suspended, and the mountain country abandoned. A comparison of the original field notes, transcript notes, plats and report of the examiner, shows that at the season of the year (from December 1 1884 to January 3 1885) when the deputy pretends to have made the surveys, the deep snows made the survey at that time impossible; that in the original notes (which are now in this office) much is omitted that is found in the transcripts and data supplied from memory, or rather made up; that disregarding clerical errors the transcripts are not in any sense copies of the original notes; that triangulations omitted in originals are audaciously given in detail in the transcripts, just as if they had really been made in the field, that the high speed, more than 6 miles per day, at which it is pretended the work was executed, surpasses belief when we take into consideration the nature of the ground, and bear in mind that the surveying was done during the shortest days of the year; that the deputy gives descriptions of erroneous bearing trees where no such trees, either as regards size or species, are to be found; that in the face of all the embarrassing conditions, big canyons, high and steep mountains, deep snow, impenetrable chaparral, precipices impossible to ascend or descend, the deputy with his two parties of four men each, frequently with the impassable San Joaquin river between them, pretends to have subdivided T8SR24E at the rate of more than 6 miles per day, and then accomplishes the feat of recording all this work in one field book. The conclusion is that the deputy did not make the surveys of these townships according to his field notes and that the notes are in large part fictitious and fraudulent."

Yes, they did pull off fraudulent surveys....:-)
DJJ

Benson Syndicate

Jeremy,

As I have spent much of my career performing cadastral surveys in your neck of the woods, I can say that many of the surveys performed by those associated with the Benson Syndicate were often performed at least in part in the Shasta/Siskiyou area.

It is frustrating following these surveys, as many parts were obviously faked, but there was often some lines run as the surveyors were out looking for those valuable lands to claim patents on. As much of the work I was involved in was done in whole township retracements, it provided me with a good understanding of how these guys worked.

Most evidence was found along the high ridges and near bottom lands with decent pasture. Flat woods with good timber production often revealed some evidence.

We would often find that the original surveyors were good at estimating calls to outlying ridges and drainages. We could never make that assumption though as more than a few original corners were found halfway down hillsides with no real rhyme or reason as to why those lines were set.

Most of our most diligent searches were for the school sections (16 & 36), as we found there was some effort by the scoundrels to carve those out. But not always.

Frustrating as it was retracing these guys, I learned to never, ever assume that there was zero effort made by them.

Benson Syndicate

Good post clearcut. It is very frustrating, especially in rugged terrain. In your neck of the woods I did a mineral survey (6984 A & B) in T11N, R6E, Humbolt Meridian, Orleans Mining District, Humbolt County CA....only one found corner in the township (supposedly). There was much speculation by the BLM that a traverse was calculated from the exterior township line up a valley and the corner was set? As I surveyed the claim it went from a protracted section 9 & 16 to a "suspended" township. Final ties were to Tract corners of the "Small Tracts Act" local surveys in the area. Tough tough country. Original surveyor John Haughn did the township exterior and interior subdivision in 1882-1883...go figure.

Pablo

Pablo

I know Tp.11 North Rg.6 East quite well.
We(BLM) resurveyed the 2nd Std Parallel, about 6 or 7 Sections and a bunch of mineral and Indian Allotment surveys and Tracts going up from the Std Parallel on the South as far North as an allotment in Section 3 in the late 70's early 80's.
We found some original corner trees to the South and a few Indian Allotment corners set in 1924 to the North. The Tracts were a different matter altogether. It appeared that Haughn, as you indicated ran traverse along the river and along some trails further up in the Mtns. and stubbed out some corners from there.

The topography calls, in places had the River running where wer wer 600 ft. above it and spurs running through the river. It's very rough the further from the River you get and the further North you go.
Lots of Old Growth Poison Oak too. 😉

In most of that type of survey you've got to spend a lot of time and retrace a lot of miles to figure out what the old guys did. It's a challenge, but it's also the best kind of surveying there is when you can figure out the puzzle.

DJJ